Forum Topic

Consultation over Stage 2 of the Oaks

As night follows day, so the phase 2 of the Oaks development - which should have been treated as campaigners have always said - as one joined up bit of planning, is now open for public comment.  The drop in session will take place on:Tuesday 16 September, 2pm to 7pm in the Oaks Shopping Centre, High Street, Acton W3 6REThe good news is that pressure to link up Churchfield Rd and the High Street in a more dynamic way appears to have been heard..the bad news is that the massing and height issues which could have been dealt with more sensitively in a joined up phase 1 and 2 plan will not have been touched.

Charlie Mawer ● 4394d38 Comments

Ridiculous time of day.  So people who work (most of us) and aren't in Acton between 2 and 7pm on a Tuesday won't be able to engage in the "consultation".  I suspect this has been timed to ensure the minimum number of objectors to the current plans are excluded.  Can a Saturday be added?  Or at least a later finish?

Anne Brown ● 4394d

"pressure to link up Churchfield Rd and the High Street in a more dynamic way appears to have been heard"Do you have any info you can share with us?  Unlikely I will be able to make it to the consultation.

Ben Smith ● 4394d

"      Ridiculous time of day.  So people who work (most of us) and aren't in Acton between 2 and 7pm on a Tuesday won't be able to engage in the "consultation".  I suspect this has been timed to ensure the minimum number of objectors to the current plans are excluded.  Can a Saturday be added?  Or at least a later finish?  " Ridiculous?Shops in the Oaks shut at 7pm, some days, 6pm.  The consultation could be for those who actually shop in the Oaks regularly. Probably hundreds each day.  They'll be the ones most affected when it closes down.

Fred Bray ● 4394d

I shop in the Oaks. At weekends.

Ben Smith ● 4394d

So do I, but had it not been for this forum, I might not have been aware of future plans for The Oaks. At this time, there are no obvious notices in The Oaks, regarding closure.

Fred Bray ● 4394d

Communication and, indeed, consultation is rather a misnomer for what ADC seem to be doing this time around.They probably want as few people there as possible - certainly as few engaged or informed - so that they can say they did it - which is all that Ealing Council will want.

Sara Nathan ● 4394d

Yes, Fred, I too shop at the Oaks. At the weekend. But I work in central London and won't get back in time, so won't be able to have my voice heard.

Anne Brown ● 4394d

Did you see Tesco won carbuncle of the year for their grim new store?Maybe we should nominate The Oaks in advance for a couple of years' time!

Sara Nathan ● 4394d

Sara my thoughts exactly when I heard the news about the Woolwich building this morning! Its apparently too big and out of keeping with the locality - sounds familiar...

Chris Hurley ● 4394d

http://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2014/sep/03/tesco-woolwich-carbuncle-cup-architectural-prize"                  Even Alex Grant, chairman of Greenwich council's planning board when the building was granted planning consent, admitted: "It is a flawed project and I regret my role as its midwife. No matter how you dress it up, Woolwich Central is a huge two-storey car park with a supermarket above and some flats on top: a type of development completely alien to London town centres like Woolwich and one which struggles to integrate well."                  "

Fred Bray ● 4393d

LATEST UPDATE :-  They've taken cladding destined for The Oaks development, and given it to Tesco  Every little helps. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Tesco Woolwich  - Carbuncle of the Year 2014 The Oaks - Carbuncle of the Year 2016 The Oaks - Carbuncle of the Year 2016 The Oaks - Carbuncle of the Year 2016

Fred Bray ● 4393d

I suspect Ealing Council (and its Southall planning committee) have already decided to vote it through before they have seen the plans.

Richard Grange ● 4393d

Awful design!

Jean F Fernandez ● 4393d

Dreadful design. Doesn't fit in with local environment at all!

Lisa Shackleton ● 4392d

It's very long and can be read in full here: http://alexgrant.me/2014/06/25/and-who-is-to-blame-for-this-carbuncle-er-me-actually/But the conclusion is devastating - and transferable to Acton:The regeneration of Woolwich over the last decade has relied on two huge projects: Tesco and the new Crossrail Station due to open in 2018. But regenerating places like Woolwich isn’t achieved just by big supermarkets or railway stations. Making a place somewhere you want to live, work or hang out in is down to lots of little things – thoughtful public spaces like the new General Gordon Square, new pubs and restaurants, community projects like the Woolwich Ideas Exchange that local councillor John Fahy has helped set up – not just big-ticket projects."No matter how you dress it up, Woolwich Central is a huge two-storey car park with a supermarket above and some flats on top: a type of development completely alien to London town centres like Woolwich and one which struggles to integrate well. Woolwich Central is at best a red herring and at worst an obstacle on Woolwich’s road to recovery. It may not be a carbuncle but it is a flawed project and I regret my role as its midwife."

Sara Nathan ● 4391d

Just bumping this up to the top of the thread. Please go along to the consultation even for five minutes. If people don't attend ARC will still have 'consulted' and their design will go forward. Please make your views know. Tell your neighbours.

Maire Lowe ● 4386d

ITS ON NOW folks...I am assuming unless anything has changed. Will try and get there later, but for anyone interested in taking part on this widespread and thorough five hours of publi consultation..its on now

Charlie Mawer ● 4381d

You recoiled in fear at Phase 1. Now prepare to experience untold dread with the hands-in-front-of-your-eyes sequel… Presenting Oaks Phase 2: A New Horror Starring Damp Squib High Street FrontageFour-Storey Burial Ground South Perimeter (playing alongside Eight-Storey Eastern Edge)New Access Route Open During Shopping Hours OnlyDon’t blink or you’ll miss the cameo appearance by One-Day ConsultationRumours that Design and Proportion – who turned down roles in Phase 1 – would make an appearance in Phase 2 proved wide of the mark. However, old friends Massing, Density and Over-Development are on board for the sequel.It’s a guaranteed scare-fest, folks – coming soon to a horizon near you.

Jake Woodward ● 4381d

Does anyone have any actual information on phase 2?  As in actual information?

Ben Smith ● 4380d

Well I went along as did lots of other people. At about 5pm  150 people had signed the book. By the time I emerged from Fields across from the Oaks, even more people had come straight from work.I was pleased that the architects and John Bourne from ARC were there talking to people and explaining the plan. Spatial awareness is not my strength so I find it difficult to understand two dimensional drawings especially if there are no measurements. I asked if they had a model of the whole plan. Others asked for the same and for the consultation to be extended to Saturday morning so that residents who work c an participate. Good news for me is that Phase 2 is only to be four stories high. Not such good news is that the Way through from Churchfield Road to the High Street will still be narrow, private and locked when the owners of the site see fit.The pubic meeting room remains tiny and useless for most meetings. The entrance from the High Street will remain the same size as no attempt will be made to get Boots to vary their lease.Your comments on the proposals need to go to the Council (Planning officer Steve Austin) via the planning portal or by e mail.

Maire Lowe ● 4380d

Thanks, but it's a shame I can't comment as I still don't have a clue what phase 2 will involve!  Do they have anything online?  Any idea of timescales?  Is there a planning application ref?  I couldn't find anything on the ealing planning portal.

Ben Smith ● 4380d

Acton is not alone in being aggressively targeted by property developers who care not-a-damn for local opinion especially when doing deals with pliant councils.This, today, from the Guardianhttp://www.theguardian.com/cities/2014/sep/17/truth-property-developers-builders-exploit-planning-cities

Richard Grange ● 4380d

The developers were going to put the posters up in the window - but they were littered with inaccuracies - like not knowing where Grove Place is for example.It is apparently online and I think ARC may have their own website.If this was on its own, you would just think "meh" and move on. But it does nothing to diminish the potential carbuncle cup winner that is Stage 1.When I was there, the developers said they didn't have to do an exhibition and weren't minded to do a Saturday or any more...they blenched slightly when they realised they had just said that to a South Acton Councillor - on the Planning Committee.

Sara Nathan ● 4380d

Stage 2 planning ref. is PP/2014/4426 but I didn't find the plans very helpful - still more bothered by the proposed 'periscope'...

Lorna Dodd ● 4379d

Oh the tower is without doubt ghastly.I find it by far the most offensive thing about the whole plan.Of course, if they had done both stages together and therefore had more to work with, they could have sorted the density without needing the excrescence and we would all have been happier.Or if our planning committee had taken a sensible decision for that matter.

Sara Nathan ● 4379d

What periscope?  I don't see one, either here:http://www.theoaksacton.co.uk/sg_home_content/home/picturebox/Aerial_view_1.jpgor here (except the 2012 proposal picture):http://www.theoaksacton.co.uk/newsletter.pdfFor anyone interested, the information is still on display in the Oaks.  The plan is to start next spring, but it's going to be TWO AND A HALF YEARS before Waitrose opens.  I hope that doesn't mean there will be NO shops open until then - that will be terrible for the high street.

Ben Smith ● 4379d

The periscope has indeed gone - but there is a 9 storey tower still there, right on Churchfield road and looming over the burial ground. Still not acceptable.

Sara Nathan ● 4379d

I have often thought - so much aggro could have been avoided if they hadnt insisted on that tower.

Richard Grange ● 4379d

"  I hope that doesn't mean there will be NO shops open until then - that will be terrible for the high street.    "Shops on the High Street might actually raise their game, competing for the extra trade.....and there are still a few empty shop units on the high street.I popped into one of the large Polish supermarkets the other day.  I couldn't read the label on some of the stuff I bought, but that's to be expected.

Fred Bray ● 4379d

Is it time for an independence for Acton campaign? Could we form our own independent town council? Should we be holding a referendum for devolution? I mean, if Dorking's doing it...just saying I've always thought that Acton would be better for having it's own town centre manager at the very least. It used to have it's own council didn't it?

Alex Watson ● 4378d

Independence is very tempting. We heard today that ARC have no intention of offering another couple of hours consultation on a Saturday morning so the working people of Acton get a chance to look at proposals for THEIR Town centre. Will our Councillors object to this latest example of Developers calling the shots?

Maire Lowe ● 4376d

Independence is very tempting. We heard today that ARC have no intention of offering another couple of hours consultation on a Saturday morning so the working people of Acton get a chance to look at proposals for THEIR Town centre. Will our Councillors object to this latest example of Developers calling the shots?

Maire Lowe ● 4376d

I think we pretty much know the answer to that one!

Sara Nathan ● 4375d

On this point I am not as pessimistic as you. The Localism Act requires consultation with locals, especially for Town Centre development. A few hours in the middle of the week does.not cut it, especially when the drawings were so difficult to understand by the ordinary working person. They apparently told our MP that they had a three dimensional model of the site. So could we see it one Saturday morning please? It seems a bit odd to be paying a PR company called 'Your Shput' while allowing as few people as possible to have their say.

Maire Lowe ● 4375d

"the drawings were so difficult to understand by the ordinary working person"A little patronising, maybe?Information is still on display in the Oaks, including illustrations which even I can understand.

Ben Smith ● 4375d

Thing is Nick, I 've been to look twice and neither I nor the people who came with me could understand them without the architect explaining. I wanted to know the width of the path at the side of the graveyard and the proposed lighting. I wanted to know about the parking arrangements. I wanted to know more a out the periscope which still seems to upset residents in the streets across the road. I wanted to know if Waitrose had signed on the dotted line. I wanted to know the dimensions of the flats in stage 2 and if any of them were to be social housing or affordable housing. I wanted to ask about the planned entrance the High Street and the materials to be used. If you could get answers to those questions from looking at the drawings by yourself, I tip my hat to you my dear.

Maire Lowe ● 4375d

Admittedly I wasn't after that amount of detail, but I still don't understand why there's still talk of periscopes:http://www.theoaksacton.co.uk/sg_home_content/home/picturebox/Aerial_view_1.jpg

Ben Smith ● 4375d

Thanks Nick. A lady has  now written to say that she understands from the drawings that six gravestones will be removed as well as some of the landscaping of the burial ground.  This will be news to many if it is correct The architect told me that he is in dialogue with the diocese as the boundary wall is a party wall. He didn't mention moving gravestones but I didn't think to ask.  I don't think that he is correct for the whole wall as I am sure the previous vicar said the wall belongs to St Mary's. The lady will seek clarification from the Council I hope that the friends of the burial ground will do likewise.

Maire Lowe ● 4375d