Forum Topic

Sympathy for Julian Bell please!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2873049/Labour-chief-social-housing-owns-1m-home-round-corner-Councillor-branded-hypocrite-buying-property-staying-housing-association-tennant.Poor Mr Bell. Trouble caring for elderly relatives with complex needs has induced him to hang on to his social housing while purchasing another house in 2007. The owner occupied house is now worth a fair bit and close to Cross Rail but the housing association property is still witin his grasp. What did he say about the shortage of social housing in Ealing again? And what will he do now the Mail has discovered he is quite the entrapeneur when it comes to housing?

Maire Lowe ● 4287d40 Comments

That doesn't wash at all, not with me anyway.He "hasn't broken the law", which is no excuse, makes it allright then?Labour supporters, if they're reasonable and fair minded, would surely admit, particularly IF it's true that he has a second private house, that this is all now WELL and truly, bang out of order?BTW, I would have exactly the same view if it was CON, LIB-DEM or ANY Other party Leader - it is all just not on.They've ALL got their snouts in various troughs, I don't trust any of them.Come the revolution!

Brian May ● 4029d

Precisely , he hasn't broken any law...if you morally object than I guess you won't be voting for his administration in any coming elections and I'm sure  the self important big gobs on here won't let us forget his moral lapse either

Gary Sinclair ● 4029d

From the Chiswick Website:-"it is totally wrong to rent a housing association home whilst owning another two (one in Acton and another I understand in Yorkshire)"  :-Topic: Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Ealing Councillor's Loan Forum HomePosted by: Gary Malcolm Date/Time: 28/08/15 10:20:00 John, I have received an email to my council email (which since then has gone down so I cannot research a reply yet) but issues like this are legally tricky as any question (from a Councillors or a member of the public) get the reply that info cannot be disclosed due to Data Protection regulations.I have an email which I recall was sent on Cllr Bell's behalf detailing some of the points raised in the thread. I am awaiting for the IT department to get my email working. Then I can have a look for the reply.As I recall on this, Cllr Bell when I asked for advice was told he has not broken the law or any internal Councillor rules. However my opinion is that morally it is totally wrong to rent a housing association home whilst owning another two (one in Acton and another I understand in Yorkshire) whilst standing on the platform of saying we need to increase the housing supply!Thanks, Cllr Gary Malcolm

Brian May ● 4029d

I'm afraid that he DOES have to answer us, rabble rousers and all, regardless of whether they are politically motivated or not.Ask yourself what Labour would be doing and saying if the situation were reversed with a Conservative Leader taking advantage with the same *"two houses" greed Mr Sinclair.I would put forward that Labour would be FAR more vociferous and "rabble rousing" on the whole smelly scenario.If you are in politics, let alone a Leader of the local party as well, you should, no MUST, answer any and all questions regarding your integrity. Speedily and openly.* There are now comments about a THIRD house in Yorkshire or some such?!!!

Brian May ● 4029d

Just because people are pushing for answers doesn't mean they are politically motivated, so you can't use that old chestnut.  The Leader of a Council should be squeaky clean and answerable to the public.  His silence does him no favours.

Angela White ● 4029d

He doesn't have to answer to local rabble rousers who are politically motivated

Gary Sinclair ● 4029d

Typical Champagne Socialist Hypocrite, Labour should be ashamed of him.Some are, most aren't.Go figure.

Brian May ● 4030d

Unanswered questions again.

Angela White ● 4030d

smears again. I'm glad he doesn't stoop to your level.

Gary Sinclair ● 4030d

Have we had any response from Julian Bell on this matter yet?  I'm curious to know what exactly Ealing Council are doing on the deeds of Mr Bell's owned property.  They had a charge on the property, meaning mortgage.  Why so?  Why and how did our Council with what I assume is our money end up having a share via mortgage in Mr Bell's home?  I didn't realise Ealing Council were also a bank, although I've encountered lots of bankers in the Council, of course.

Angela White ● 4030d

Still no response from Mr. Bell

Nigel Brooks ● 4265d

The 'renting' claim was made by Cllr Stafford who, it is reported, said in his statement:"Whilst I am sympathetic to any personal issues Cllr Bell has with his family situation especially when it comes to elderly relatives, there are clearly questions that need to be answered.""The fact that he is a tenant in a social rented house whilst also owning a £1m house is not denied by him. He has also admitted that he has rented parts of it to foreign students"

Nigel Brooks ● 4284d

"I think under the 'rent a room' scheme one can earn up to £4250 a year as rent from one's main residence as tax free income (and I think no declaration is required)."Yes but this only applies to one room, up to the annual limit and in the home the taxpayer is occupying full time.We clearly need information before jumping to any conclusions but the news report suggests that Cllr Bell is living in a property owned by a housing association with the implication that if any rooms at the "owned" property were occupied by third parties AND any fee was paid that would NOT fall under the rent a room scheme - it would need to be declared on a self assessment / tax return.For clarity, I don't believe anyone has said Cllr Bell DID rent a room / part of the "owned" home out but a clear statement from him  on these and other points raised would clarify matters and thus remove all doubt.

Chris Martin ● 4284d

"2. Whether any monies / forms of consideration received were subsequently declared to HMRC?"I think under the 'rent a room' scheme one can earn up to £4250 a year as rent from one's main residence as tax free income (and I think no declaration is required).

Vlod Barchuk ● 4284d

"Vlod responded by referring to a piece of Labour legislation from 2002 (I wonder if that came from a central office crib sheet?)"No, I happen to have worked on social housing projects and spoken to housing officers and council finance staff who implement social housing rent regulations. New Labour began a process of increasing them in real terms. This is all off topic and an attempt to distract readers from the matter at hand, ie. another Labour politician with a property portfolio who likes taking the moral high ground on issues such as the NHS and social housing.

Vlod Barchuk ● 4284d

I've now seen the letter from a resident in another part of the Borough sent to a Councillor, also in another part of the. Borough. I'm told that all our Councillors were given a copy so you can always ask them for their opinion. I'm afraid the letter is very detailed and.has a number of appendices showing public records on Mr. Bells two houses.I really think we must have a statement.

Maire Lowe ● 4284d

I fail to see what IDS's sensible suggestion that you do not have children 'on the state' has to do directly with Julian Two Houses but it is typical of the polarised press that we have with the Grauniad attacking the Tories and The Scaly Mail attacking Labour.That said when my children were growing up, not that long ago, Child benefit was only ever payable for the first two children and if one wanted more there was no government support.I still do not understand why we support families with four, five or more children.If you cannot afford to have children without a reliance on the state to part fund them then you should consider the wisdom of your decision.

Nigel Brooks ● 4284d

Maire, came upon this piece in the Grauniad as I am just off to bed, just a reminder as to what your government are doing.....sleep tight.... http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/dec/16/tories-poor-people-iain-duncan-smith-behavioural-change

Iain Muir ● 4284d

Maire, I am not blinkered but am passionate in my concern about what your party is doing to our economy and the poorest sections of our society. You started the thread with a link to the mail piece and your own comments about Cllr Bells position. I have neither condoned or condemned Cllr Bell but have suggested that more and better information will be forthcoming. I also gave information about the 'only or principle home' rule and commented on the present governments ending of truly affordable social housing.  Vlod responded by referring to a piece of Labour legislation from 2002 (I wonder if that came from a central office crib sheet?) so I explained how that legislation worked, He has since responded with a one liner totally ignoring the facts. I was highly critical of some aspects of the Labour government but know which administration will instinctively work for the best interests of the population rather than the rich......realities of the economy accepted. As for lack of comment by Labour supporters, I have no idea, I imagine Labour councillors recognise the risks of social media unlike those who regularly fall foul of loose tweets and forum posts.......

Iain Muir ● 4284d

I'm sure that Cllr Bell would be the first to agree that probity is an essential quality in a public official. To that end and as a local resident I would really like to know:1. Whether at any time a room has been rented out in either property for money or another form of consideration?2. Whether any monies / forms of consideration received were subsequently declared to HMRC?3. Whether at any time a single occupancy discount for council tax has been claimed on either property from 2008 to date?4. In the event that Cllr Bell's own property is mortgaged in his name / jointly, when the bank was informed in writing that it was no longer being occupied as a main residence?5. Which of the two properties Cllr Bell was listed as living in for electoral role purposes from 2008 onwards?6. How many adults on average have been staying in the combined 8/9 bedrooms offered in the two properties?7. How recently Cllr Bell made the HA aware that he owned another property in the same area?

Chris Martin ● 4285d

If there were a grain of truth in the comment claim, it would be a public service for Cllr Bell to name and shame the builder who has ruined a £1m house. And, presumably, to provide details of the legal proceedings being taken against said builder.

Peter Millman ● 4285d

I do not know the real situation either but the 'house ruined and unable to fix' claim rings hollow given that Mr. Bell has allegedly admitted to renting out parts of the house to foreign students. I wonder if it registered as an HMO?

Nigel Brooks ● 4285d

“Rent restructuring was designed to help fund council's Decent Homes programmes”I think we all know what ‘rent restructuring’ is a synonym for. According to the current electoral register, the Bells are registered at the house purchased in 2007 but Mrs Bell (or someone with the same name) is also on the electoral roll for the HA property. Curious.

Vlod Barchuk ● 4285d

A simple clarification from Cllr Bell could lay this matter to rest. He's normally a very active Twitter user and posts on here from time to time too.  So the silence on this is uncharacteristic, especially now that it's a national news story. Saying nothing and hoping it all goes away is not going to wash. I'm sure Private Eye will be watching this one unfold.I wouldn't set much store by an anonymous, semi-literate comment on the Daily Mail website. The reader comments are mainly the preserve of trolls, swivel-eyed loons and the green ink brigade.

Peter Millman ● 4285d

Well said Chris - there are those who are too quick to condemn - but Cllr. Bell needs to answer the criticisms quickly imo.

Gerry Tan ● 4285d

From the Mail website: "I know a friend of the family and they have being unfortunate victims of a cowboy builder who has left there house ruined and unable to fix - they are a working class family with bills like everyone else so shame on you people for believing the utter twists and lies of the media".I don't know what the real situation is, and I suggest we wait and see what he/the Housing Association has to say before we all jump on the bandwagon. And no, I am not a member of the Labour Party, just don't like the Tories jumping all over this until the facts are known.

Chris Hurley ● 4285d

Wholly irrellenvently (but what synchronicity?) Duck House man is a legal assessor today at the same tribunal rooms as me...

Sara Nathan ● 4285d

No sympathy at all from me if the allegations are accurately reported.There is a chronic shortage of social family housing and to occupy one while owning (and receiving rental income from)another 'occupiable' property is unforgiveable irrespective of so-called circumstances.

Nigel Brooks ● 4285d

Sorry, last line of my previous posting should read No Labour voter living in Acton has commented on this.

Maire Lowe ● 4285d

Iain, fond as I am of you, there are times you seem quite blinkered.This is not really a 'Labour always good, Conservatives always bad'situation.Those MPs who charged their duck houses,and their cleaners to the public purse all said their expenses were legal. All gave the money back eventually. It turned out that as soon as the general public knew the scale of the 'legal' expenses, the gravy train had to stop. What is needed here is a proper explanation from Mr. Bell and from this Housing Association who seems to get preferential treatment from Ealing CouncilI know from good authority that the Mail story was in the hands of Ealing Councillors one week before the story went public. Ample time to prepare an explanation. We are still waiting.This is not about Mr. Bell's personal life. It is about his two houses, He is the Leader of the Council. He must set the record straight.BTW, you live in Brentford. Have you noticed that no one living in Acton has commented on this?

Maire Lowe ● 4285d

Yes I agree sympathy for Cllr. Bell, but he has to answer these questions about his actions ASAP - Ealing and Acton residents deserve to know.

Gerry Tan ● 4285d

Hi Peter, I suggest you withdraw your comment about being a 'benefit cheat'. There is no suggestion of that in the reports to date. Unlikely, but you might face legal problems otherwise, just friendly advice as I have no connection with Cllr Bell, I have not met him as far as I know......

Iain Muir ● 4285d

Regardless of all that, until there is some sort of explanation for these unusual arrangements, it would appear that Julian "2houses" Bell is a hypocrite and a benefit cheat, according to the article.  I'm sure he will want to clear the matter up for the Ealing electorate, not just for his chums on the council.

Peter Millman ● 4285d

Vlod, what an odd response.......Why refer back to a piece of legislation from 2002 which was intended to narrow the gap between council rents (often very low outside of London) and HA rents which were generally higher. The + up to £2 a week only applied if the properties rent was below a locally set target rent and limited, rather than increased rent rises. Rent restructuring was designed to help fund council's Decent Homes programmes (one of the governments major achievements after years of tory neglect) and to provide financial stability for HA's to improve their ability to borrow from the market for new development. HA's proved remarkably robust during the financial crisis with just two major failures, requiring rescue by larger HA's, both caused by financial miss-management. Uncertainty and risk reduced new development post the bankers crash but it was the present government's grant reduction and insistence on near market rents which  have had a permanent impact on new home provision, plus of course all the whiz bang schemes aimed more at helping out tory mates in the building industry by overheating the market rather than first time buyers.  I see yet another voters bribe has been launched today, brought forward by six months for some reason!......and to be paid for by less 'affordable' housing and at the expense of the community through loss in infrastructure payments....No wonder the Bank of England is concerned......

Iain Muir ● 4286d

Come off it Iain, attempts to imply a socialist nirvana before 2010 won't wash. In 2002, New Labour began 'restructuring' social rents so that they could increase each year by inflation + 0.5% + £2 a week. Housing Associations got burned in the financial crisis when they could no longer borrow against the value of their housing stock to fund development, although that is now changing (see Catalyst's plans for Friary Rd).  As to who lives where in Julian Bell's property portfolio, one cannot really tell how many nights anyone stays where but publicly available information, such as the electoral register, might be a useful way to verify claims.

Vlod Barchuk ● 4286d

Well said Sara, I guess you had George Osborne in mind..... I am sure Mr Bell will have to explain a bit more of his personal life to justify his position to the public. In the good old days before the term social housing was invented, council housing was not just for the poor and needy. It is only since the right to buy that such housing has become residualised with the loss of mixed communities and the social problems that brought. The current government have effectively ended social housing by increasing rents to up to 80% of market rents and reducing grant to Housing Associations so much that many have reduced new development significantly and some have just stopped building. Hence Boris will fail to reach his targets for new homes. This is a more interesting story than Mr Bell but I doubt the Mail would be interested.....

Iain Muir ● 4286d

Also, don't we rather expect Tory plutocrats to own as much as they can and grind the faces of the poor into the bargain?But a Labour chappie using social housing - meant for the under-resourced and dispossessed - is rather more shocking.

Sara Nathan ● 4286d

Oh I dunno Iain. Anyone who is an owner occupier and also holds a Housing Association tenancy is likely to attract attention. Owning more than one property is not the point here as I suspect you know very well.

Maire Lowe ● 4286d

Naughty Maire!!, there are lots of tory politicians with multiple homes but I don't think the Mail will highlight them, strange that!..... A social housing tenancy requires the tenant to hold the property as his/her 'Only or principle home' I imagine Mr Bell does not want his personal circumstances on view to all and sundry but if he says he has been 'open and transparent' I imagine that he has good reason to keep his family connection to the tenancy and this is acceptable to the landlord. A number of reasons are possible but I will not speculate on here........

Iain Muir ● 4286d

I almost didn't get past Ealing being described as "one of Ed Miliband’s flagship Labour councils". Shows how out of touch Wallace is.However, back to the hypocrisy. If Bell completes his adaptations on the home he owns (must be pretty radical if they have taken this long) and then releases the home to those I real need we should draw a line. Somehow though, I fear this will run and run an could be a catalyst to expose other dubious activities in Ealing.

Nigel Brooks ● 4287d