Forum Topic

Changes to CPZs in Derwentwater/Stuart/Newburgh Roads

We (residents of Derwentwater, Stuart and Newburgh Roads) have put together a petition to present to the council urging them to change our CPZ arrangements which we’re finding wholly inadequate at present (especially those of us with babies and/or small children) – so much of the time we are unable to park anywhere near our homes. With the proposed Oaks development and the consequential closure of the car park in Churchfield Road, as well the huge influx of new residents settled in the high-density housing there, the parking situation will clearly soon be intolerable. We are asking for a return to all-day restrictions. We already have over 50 signatures, and are still collecting, but if you haven’t signed the petition and would like to, please email me.

Jo Thompson ● 4297d29 Comments

... we have been told by the council that to get arrangements changed, the more representations from residents, the better. You can make your own voice heard by emailing our local ward councilors (e.g. Dan Crawford or Patricia Walker) or Anthony Kestla Ealing (kestlaa@ealing.gov.uk) at the Highway Services which deals with CPZs. Again, if you would like a copy of a generic letter outlining our issues, I can provide you one via email.

Jo Thompson ● 4297d

We would like to arrangements a meeting with the Chair of Governors at Derwentwater and you guys. Ill pm you tomorrow.

Maire Lowe ● 4297d

Hi Jo,I would love to have a copy of a generic letter in regards to CPZ, please could you send me one?susanhauser2003@yahoo.co.uk

Susan Hauser ● 4295d

What changes are you hoping for? I presume you are in K1 like myself.

Terrie Hodgson ● 4294d

We will be asking for a return to the way things were when the CPZ was initially introduced (all-day exclusions). Since the changes were imposed we are still paying for our residents' permits but are only getting protection for two, one-hour periods, five days a week. At times it is already impossible to park anywhere near our homes, but when the car park is closed and the development up and running things are going to become untenable. Clearly, we shall still encounter acute problems in the evenings and weekends but it is a start.

Jo Thompson ● 4294d

With respect, it's wholly inadequate for all of us - children or not.

Mark Bird ● 4294d

There was a consultation prior to the change to shorter hours. Does anyone know what the votes were in these three streets?

Vlod Barchuk ● 4294d

Totally agree; we don't have small children anymore and it is difficult enough for us. However, I do remember when ours were young and appreciate it is particularly difficult for mums/dads on their own who have to park in the next street when they are weighed down by babies and toddlers, buggies, baby equipment, shopping etc which they have to unload.

Jo Thompson ● 4293d

Don't know how the voting went, although my impression was that the local businesses (understandably) formed quite an effective lobby in favour of the changes. I think there was some apathy amongst residents. I'm not sure, though, Vlad, how relevant this is any more: the whole point is that the situation has changed and will change considerably more in the near future, largely as a result of the proposed Oaks development (the closure of the council car park, the large influx of new residents in the high-density homes, removal of parking spaces opposite the main entrance etc.) and, judging by the fact we have had no-one as yet who hasn't wanted to sign the petition rather shows that residents want the changes made now.

Jo Thompson ● 4293d

However, zone K costs more than K1 because K1 requires less enforcement patrols.So please make it clear that you want to return to K (or start a new K2) rather than change the whole of K1.

Paul Webster ● 4293d

Hadn't really thought about the extra cost of enforcement, Paul; it's a valid point.  However, frankly, we are getting next to nothing for our money at the moment. I don't think we would be alone in accepting a reasonable rise in the annual fee if we were to get a better deal. There may well be an argument for regarding our three streets as a special case as we seem to be experiencing more problems than the rest of Poet's Corner already – before the potentially huge impact on parking arising from the Oaks development. This is something we would have to work out with the council. However, if you consider how many extra cars will be searching for parking spaces after closure of the car park in Churchfield Road alone, it may be wishful thinking to assume there won't be a considerable knock-on effect in all adjacent streets.

Jo Thompson ● 4293d

Jo, it's always worth knowing the results of previous consultations to see how decisions were made and assess the prospects of any campaign for change being successful. And in this case, I think you and other residents will be very interested in these results.The Council's Cabinet (the decision making body of the Council) decided to make the change from K to K1 at its meeting on 21 February 2012. At the bottom of this message is a link to the report that was considered. Appendix 1 (page 11) of the report shows a breakdown of CPZ residents survey results by street. Most residents in Derwentwater Rd wanted to retain the Zone K hours and most residents in Newburgh and Stuart Rds actually wanted longer hours (though the colours on the map for Stuart Rd are somewhat ambiguous). I suspect the reason hours were reduced is that, taken as a whole, most residents in Zone K north of the High St wanted shorter hours. So you didn't get what you voted for.Council CPZ policy (which I wrote and pushed through when responsible for transport policy back in 2008) requires CPZ results to be looked at on an area rather than individual street basis, but what constitutes an area is open to interpretation and should be looked at in each case. Looking at the results I think it would have been more sensible to retain Zone K hours for those south of Churchfield Rd and in your little area as they are more likely to be affected by shopper parking than those north of Churchfield Rd. This is good ammo to throw at the councillors, who do not seem to have looked at the survey results in sufficient detail. http://www2.ealing.gov.uk/ealing3/export/sites/ealingweb/services/council/committees/agendas_minutes_reports/cabinet/24may2011-15may2012/_21_Feb_2012/Item_17_-_CPZ_Implementation_Update_Report_v2.pdf

Vlod Barchuk ● 4293d

Highlands ave parking not really changed since introduction of K1 zone. Also it is nice to be able to park in zone K with no extra charge. However things may change when car park is closed.

Terrie Hodgson ● 4292d

Thanks, Vlod, this is most interesting and helpful. I also tend to agree with your conclusions. I guess the elephant which is still very much in the room is the Oaks Development and how it will impact on all of us who are in the vicinity, although, as you say, the geography of the thing means our three streets are likely to be adversely affected – as they are at present – more than most.

Jo Thompson ● 4292d

Jo, I'm so pleased you have started this as I have been equally driven to distraction over the last few months. And it's getting worse. The problem is exacerbated as was clear from other forum threads by their being insufficient parking at Morrisons and so people use Derwentwater as a convenient shopping base. (That and the myriad of estate agents using the three roads as a carpark base.) I'd happiily pay more towards enforcement if it meant occasionally being able to park on the same road I live on.

Charlie Mawer ● 4292d

How is this going? Stuart Road has a similar problem.

Maire Lowe ● 4233d

Hi Marie, you will see from our first posting and the name of the thread that this was always an initiative for residents of the three streets, Derwentwater, Stuart and Newburgh Roads. We did knock on everyone's door a couple of times, but clearly we didn't catch you in to sign the petition. Not to worry, everyone we asked willingly signed. Speaking to Anthony Kestla (Highways, Ealing Council) the decision to review CPZ in the area has already been made, but that he agreed a special case could be made for our three streets and that the petition (of which he now has a copy) could only help. He suggested our next best course of action is for residents to contact their ward councillors directly to push our case. He also suggested that for us, in particular, it could be argued K1 (it being changed originally as a result of lobbying from businesses in Churchfield Road) should return to what it was before, on the grounds that the changeover in our particular streets was an ‘experiment’ that hasn't worked. Hope this helps.

Jo Thompson ● 4232d

A quick double-check regarding the closing remark ... K1 reversion for the 3 roads in question but not necessarily for the rest where K1 has meant easier parking during the day for visitors and a lower annual charge.

Paul Webster ● 4231d

I very much like having K1 hours in my road: no commuters but easy for visitors and tradesmen.The peak difficulty time for parking her is after 2130 in the evening when all the residents are back. We can quite often not park anywhere near then - never a problem during the day.But, apart from charging twice as much for a second car at the same address and four times as much for three (which might not go down well), I can't see what can be done about that.

Sara Nathan ● 4231d

Thanks Jo. Actually I live on Cumberland so not in your target group. Interested in the issue though and in the perennial problem of parents picking up and dropping off at Derwentwater school. One harrassed mother tried to leave her car on the disabled parking space used by a family on Stuart Road the other day while I was watching. I sympathize with the rushed feelings of parents in the morning and with the need for shoppers to park conveniently when trying to buy a few essentials on Churchfield Road. They still need to be mindful of residents though.Is there any progress on some kind of control for parents parking? Someone mentioned the school was considering options?

Maire Lowe ● 4231d

Our understanding is that the council will now formally re-consult all local residents on any changes to the CPZ so everyone will have their say – and vote. I believe residents of Grove Road in actual fact started the review process. The issue for us is that, looking at the previous voting figures (see previous post), a majority of us voted last time against changes from K to K1 but got it any way – hence the argument for treating our three streets as a special case next time. Our streets are particularly vulnerable and will be made even more so when the council car park (holding about 50 cars & often with cars parking overnight) and the Oaks car park (I counted 80 cars parked there this morning, and this when there is no shopping in The Oaks at present!) close, as work on the development commences. The Oaks development, weirdly, in terms of parking is for many people still very much the elephant in the room. We, however, as the Americans would say, are doing the math now. I repeat what we've said many times, the closing of the car parks and the inevitable parking demands arising from the high-density housing to be built are clearly going to make parking in streets adjacent to the site (where it is already very difficult) almost impossible. I would also suggest, given the numbers of vehicles looking for parking spaces as a result of the above, it would be naive to think adjoining streets won't also be experiencing a knock-on before very long.

Jo Thompson ● 4231d

Hi Maire, I remember now, in an earlier post you said the Chair of Govs. at Derwentwater was going to contact us, but we didn't hear anything. We do sympathise with the school drop issue, but I guess no solution will ever be perfect for everyone. Of course, we had the previous 9.00 to 5.00 arrangement for many years and people seem to cope. I think the school should probably make its own representations to the council on this.

Jo Thompson ● 4231d

With the backing of the Churchfield Community Association, I was the main person behind the previous vote that resulted in restricting parking in K1 & 2 to an hour in the morning and an hour in the afternoon. It took about 4 years to finally get the vote and get the council to agree to make the change. In addition, volunteers leafleted some few thousand residences to persuade people of the need for it.It is true that Derwentwater, Newburgh and Stuart Roads voted against (or came close to). It was the council that decided to ignore this when they came to set the new parking times/borders – for, they said, practical reasons (traffic wardens).But while I do sympathise with the present situation in this part of Acton (and believe that it will only get worse), the previous situation shouldn't be forgotten. We began the campaign to change the parking mainly to aid the shops in Churchfield Road, which were unable to attract passing trade because there was no place for potential customers to park. Even the few paid parking spaces were monopolised by the cars attached to the local minicab company, and lots of fights broke out (sometimes physical ones). Meanwhile, there were acres of empty spaces in neighbouring streets during the day.So I guess my plea is that we should try to find a solution that won't kill Churchfield Road, which has never been livelier, but will make your situation better. Be sure to get the council to let you have a preview of the questions that the new parking survey will ask – when we did, we found that people were asked to say yes or no to the status quo in one question, and then alternatives were dealt with in a separate one. (We got them to make all the choices equal.)The campaign to change the parking times last time (which, by the way, didn't benefit me personally at all) was very much led by the local residents. It's unfortunate that a small section has come to suffer from what was done.BTW, the local shop owners didn't vote – they weren't allowed to – and they didn't run a concerted campaign (that was us). But they did put posters in their windows!

Nancy Duin ● 4229d

I live in Birkbeck Road.  I agree that we should return to the way things were (all-day exclusions).  Parking in our Road is near impossible, outside the two, one-hour periods.  Ideally 9am to 9pm seven days a week parking restrictions would be better.  The same as other CPZ's in  Acton.

Jacqueline Preston ● 4229d

Thanks for this, Nancy; it's very interesting. Clearly, no one wants to 'kill' Churchfield Road; most of us use and support many of the excellent shops and businesses there. However, the temporary parking bays seem to be working quite well - if I am out and about in the car and want to pop into one of the shops on the way home I can almost always find a space. It's worth mentioning, too, that once the high density housing is finished local businesses will benefit from an influx of hundreds of new residents, all in walking reach! Things have changed though and as we all know will change considerably more once the Oaks development is underway and the 200+ parking spaces now available will be no longer. Furthermore, some businesses are easier to be enthusiastic about than others: at our end of Churchfield Road, for example, there are several estate agents all of whom, as a previous poster mentions, have fleets of cars which they park up in our streets daily adding to the problems we are encountering. Because the Oaks is presently not open for business and the car parks for the time being still there, we are experiencing the lull before the storm. Once things are under way, however, I think priority must be given to (permit-paying) residents. If we are not able as often is the case even now to park anywhere near our homes, then I'm sorry, supporting local businesses has to be a secondary consideration and frankly not really our responsibility.

Jo Thompson ● 4229d

Let's see what happens as the car park closes tomorrow? Does Poet's Corner have the same restrictions as us? If not, why not as our 3 roads suffer from overparking from all the Churchfield Road businesses. Estate agent's cars are everywhere some days when I try to get a spot.Any updates on progress?

Mark Bird ● 4094d

Oops - just seen the K1 map and have seen it's the whole area.

Mark Bird ● 4094d

A few months ago I ran into the PR guy (Ben) who fronted The Oaks development and mentioned how the local neighbourhood was worried about parking when The Oaks starts being built. He assured me that, since the construction will be starting at the front, on the High Street, and working backwards towards Churchfield Road, the car parks would be kept for quite some time. Has notification gone up that they are shutting today (?)?

Nancy Duin ● 4093d

With the new electronic CPZ tickets you nobody will be able to tell at a glance whether a car has a permit or not.  Also the fact that second and third cars etc will have increased permit charges (as happens in H&F) may discourage some people from being car owners.  Where are the nearest Zipcar or equivalent spaces?

Philippa Bond ● 4092d