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The lower house in Switzerland recently voted to withdraw their EU application but they have not formally done so.The vote came before Brexit which significantly changes things for Switzerland. Most of the larger Swiss banks currently have their HQs in the City of London so they can access the single market. As previously pointed out Switzerland is excluded from financial services in the single market, a measure which serves to protect the predominance of the City of London.Brexit offers a huge opportunity to the Swiss - they could replace the City of London as Europe's financial capital if they could become part of the single market. There will therefore be some fairly powerful interests in Switzerland pushing for their EU application to be pursued with more vigour. You should not underestimate the power of the banks in Switzerland to determine the direction of Government policy.It may be that anti-immigration parties in Switzerland whip up opposition to EU membership but the prize is huge - taking away an industry from the UK which is our largest source of foreign income and tax receipts by a huge margin. As the Swiss are already part of Schengen, agreeing to full freedom of movement would be a relatively small price to pay.If you think 'Team Triangle' is likely to be an adequate compensation for the loss of access to the single market then you will be disappointed. Norway has a large fiscal surplus but its economy is small particularly if you exclude oil. Iceland is still trying to recover from its previous financial collapse and has contested liabilities outstanding. This is the reason why it hasn't been allowed to join the EU. There is no reason we couldn't expand our trade with Iceland within the EU as it is already effectively part of the single market but our dispute with it over unpaid debts makes it unlikely that they will be particularly keen to open detailed trade talks with us. As they have a population the size of London Borough of Ealing that probably doesn't matter than much.

Andy Jones ● 3704d

That's very gracious of you Dennis.We may have a much larger economy than either Norway or Switzerland but that doesn't necessarily mean we are stronger. Norway runs a huge fiscal surplus due to its oil reserves and Switzerland also has a relatively strong financial position with the Swiss Franc one of the world's strongest currency over the past few years.We have a large and rising debt the growth of which is likely to accelerate now previous fiscal constraints have been abandoned. The downgrade of our credit rating may only be the beginning of the deterioration of our international credit-worthiness as this debt is becoming increasing unsustainable. Ironically most of our short term lines of credit are currently being supplied by the European Central Bank and this is keeping us financially stable for the time being.As outlined before you can't untangle freedom of movement from the single market. Even if you believe that leaving the single market will not have seriously negative economic consequences (and I can't find anyone who believes this) there will be a period of uncertainty in which our already fragile economy will come under pressure. It remains to be seen how long we can sustain low to zero growth without cracks starting to appear.I don't think Theresa May will be punished by the electorate if she fails to deliver an end to freedom of movement. By the time of the next election the economy will be what is on people's mind and there is likely to be relief if negotiations with the EU are coming to an end and the period of uncertainty is over. With the two main opposition parties in favour of freedom of movement UKIP will be the only option and it remains an unpalatable one for most voters. In any case Theresa May is clearly positioning leading Brexiteers to take the blame for failure to deliver us from freedom of movement.It is important that you understand that the refugee crisis and freedom of movement are not connected. Freedom of movement does not allow people from outside the EU to enter the country. We will still need to be part of an international effort to resolve the refugee issue and it will be argued that, as we are likely to see reduced net immigration due to economic factors, we should take a much larger number of refugees.There is a scenario in which Brexit creates a domino effect. If the UK's departure was relatively painless then there are number of countries in which anti-EU parties would gain a significant vote although everywhere the lesson will have been learnt that an in-out referendum should not be held. Of course, this gives the EU an huge incentive not to flexible with the UK in the negotiations and offer pretty unattractive terms if we decide to leave the single market to serve as a warning as to what might be the fate of other countries deciding to leave.The irony is that Brexit might result in a net increase in the size of the EU. Switzerland has long been wishing for full membership and Britain was one of the countries stalling their application mainly due to concerns about increased competition in the financial sector.Iceland wants to join and their application was being blocked by us because we wanted them to settle debt obligations arising from their previous default. With us out of the way they will be looking to join quickly.Gibraltar probably will have to bow to the inevitable that it will need to cease to be under the control of the UK if we leave the single market. Spain would probably agree to a quasi independent Gibraltar joining and the benefits for the Rock would be huge as the border would effectively be abolished.Scotland's position will take longer but without the single market they would look certain to hold another independence vote and the result looks clear cut at this point. The sticking point will be new members having to join the Euro but I'd anticipate the EU being flexible on this issue. If Spain effectively had Gibraltar back they are unlikely to be too concerned about Scotland leaving the UK.The economic impracticality of Northern Ireland leaving the single market will over the course of time end voting on predominantly sectarian lines and give rise to a demand for the economic unity of the island of Ireland. It may be that businesses simply adopt the Euro to reflect an economic reality that the political situation has been slow to catch up on.Possibly therefore we could be looking at an EU with 31 members after Brexit compared to 28 before.

Andy Jones ● 3706d

I think that you are right that a tariff war with Europe will never happen. Both sides will recognise that this would be insane.The problem is at the moment the starting negotiating position of the UK in the form of Brexit minister David Davis is 'single market with no freedom of movement'. The starting negotiating position of the EU is you will not get single market with no freedom of movement. This isn't a bargaining stance on their part it reflects the fact that freedom of movement is an integral part of what the single market is. Put another way, if there is no freedom of movement, it isn't the single market.There will probably be two practical options on the table - the Norway option which is more or less a non-voting membership or the Switzerland option which is a slightly looser association with financial services excluded from the single market.Theresa May and virtually every other member of her cabinet know these are the best potential deals that we can get. David Davis probably knows this as well but never actually expected to be put in a position in which had to make the things he claimed could happen actually happen. So what does he then do? He could accept one of these deals and look a complete idiot or go back to cabinet to say that we need to renegotiate our trade arrangements with 27 EU countries plus the five others who are effectively in the single market and look a complete idiot.He may claim that France and Germany will be happy to offer us favourable trading terms in order to continue tariff free access for their cheese and cars and that, if he can have 1,000 trade negotiators he can sort out deals with all the other countries. By this time the economy will at best be treading water due to the ongoing uncertainty and the markets will be terrified at any suggestion we might go nuclear and leave the single market. The Cabinet, which in case you haven't noticed voted 75% to Remain, will tell him he is being ridiculous. At which point he will probably choose to resign and any Tory MP who is still a Brexiteer will have realised that leading negotiations is a poison chalice. Someone sensible will be put in charge with the brief to get things finished off as quickly as possible i.e. agree to terms offered. It is not in the EU's interest to prolong things either so these probably won't be punitive. Theresa May seems to have played this brilliantly. We will leave the EU, we won't leave the single market. We will have to accept EU trading rules with zero influence over them but to offset that we can negotiate independent trade agreements with countries outside the EU (although it is highly likely that the EU will insist on a veto of any deal we strike).One final point is that the EU does not insist on open borders. There are open borders on continental Europe as part of the Schengen Agreement. We have already opted out of that and we do not have open borders. I'm sure someone on the EU negotiating team with a similar sense of humour to Theresa May will be suggesting as part of our new relationship with the EU we should be required to become part of the Schengen Area.

Andy Jones ● 3708d

Dennis, Jean-Claude Juncker doesn't handle trade negotiations for the EU. This is done by a sizeable team of specialists who are used to handling the highly complex issues involved in trade treaties. Since our own entry into the EU the UK's expertise in trade negotiations has disappeared as all such negotiations have been handled by the EU on our behalf. There will be some British members of the EU trade department but, even if they could be persuaded to come and work for the UK, they would be a tiny fraction of the number of people we actually need. It is almost certain we will have to recruit non-UK nationals currently working for the EU to help with negotiations.Remember this is not simply a matter of negotiating with the larger economies outside the EU. We will have to do deals with all 27 EU members and the key thing you need to understand is that they all have a veto on the terms of our exit from the EU. Economic powerhouse we may be but we have put ourselves in a situation in which Greece, Bulgaria, Slovakia and Lithuania have a gun to our head. It is certain that to persuade all 27 countries not to use their veto will have to make a series of concessions to the particular interest of each one.The EU is currently the largest economic market in the world so it goes without saying that collectively it has strong bargaining power in trade negotiations. The countries you mention wouldn't really be material in any talks - they collectively have a GDP of less than Belgium.I'm not saying that the UK (or what is left of it by the time these negotiations conclude) does not have some interesting things to offer countries outside the single market. Currently we operate under the protection of the EU which generally imposes a tariff or around 4% on imports from other countries. Large manufacturing countries like China, South Korea and India will be very keen to talk to us about reduced tariffs for their goods. I posted earlier about the likely impact on the steel industry in this country but the same goes for a large section of domestic manufacturing. The trade deals will focus on areas of relative competitive advantage which means we will aim for more access for our financial services industries in return for opening up for manufactured goods.If you think that a 4% tariff isn't significant you would be totally wrong. Given tight profit margins particularly for manufactured goods it will be decisive. Take a manufacturer like the Korean company Samsung - if they can get tariff free access to the UK their manufacturing here will be scaled down. We would be compensated for that by more jobs in the City.Unfortunately given the ridiculously short time-scale for these negotiations, their fiendish complexity and our lack of the necessary expertise, serious mistakes are likely to be made. Typically trade negotiations can take up a decade to complete because the details are critically important.One hypothetical example would be to assume that we gave tariff free access to Korean car manufacturers to the UK market in return for British stockbrokers being allowed to be members of the Korean stock exchange. Now let's say Kia Motors has a large manufacturing plant in Indonesia and ships these cars through Korea to the UK. Is this allowable? if not how much of the production of the car needs to be done in Korea? what standards of manufacturing need to be adhered to? what road safety features need to be incorporated? These are not insuperable problems but will require a lot of time and effort to resolve and this is for just one product in one country. You have to multiply this by hundreds of times to get some idea of the scale of the work that will be required.So can we get good deals outside the EU? There will undoubtedly be some big winners particularly in services industries but given that there will be some huge losers some by design and some because of the hurried nature of the negotiations. Whether any deals will be of a net benefit to the economy is hard to say at this stage.One thing that our weak negotiating position and lack of negotiators makes inevitable is that we will need to request the EU that we remain in the single market (including accepting freedom of movement). We simply don't have the capacity to handle detailed negotiation and it is the majority view of the new cabinet (privately at least) that we must stay in the Single Market with freedom of movement. Unfortunately that probably also means that the EU would need to rubber stamp any trade deal that make outside the single market to stop us being used as a conduit for tariff avoidance.

Andy Jones ● 3709d