Forum Topic

Wetherspoons and Brexit

Apparently he spent over £93,000 on the campaign to leave.Strange really when you consider that his empire has been enriched by a vast percentage of Polish employees.

Sarah Vickers ● 3438d28 Comments

Debateable. What isn't debateable is the fact that I was in the Shakespeare's Head, Wetherspoon's in Holborn and of the 6 staff who either served me or I heard talking 5 were English and one was an Aussie.

Keith Iddon ● 3431d

Wetherspoons get free publicity gassing on about politics.The owner of Wetherspoons is just a rent a quote.At least the voters in Richmond made their views clear on Brexit - UKIP didnt stand in the byelection - so Zac  got a clear run.

Sarah Stephens ● 3432d

You would have to be in that situation yourself to understand it.

Janice Evans ● 3434d

Most people I knew have gone.

Janice Evans ● 3434d

I don't think people move out of London to find work. they move because they can't earn enough in London and the south-East to be able to afford housing. Not quite the same thing.

Sara Nathan ● 3434d

And still no one is listening which is why we ended up in this mess in the first place.

Janice Evans ● 3434d

You have to remember a lot of those people moved out of the London area as a means of getting a job in the first place, can you blame them for making a stand now.

Janice Evans ● 3434d

Of course alienation was a factor - but I don't think you should try to minimise the amount that immigration was too. Just not in areas with a whole mix of people. Interestingly in places like Peterborough, with the local fear of eastern europeans coming in and taking jobs (many of which local people seem surprisingly uninteresting in doing), there were both migrants and a leave vote....but that seems to have occurred largely in areas with great seasonal or single-group influxes.

Sara Nathan ● 3434d

well said Keith, I never know how to explain things well and you have done that very well.  People always look to one reason and never look at the bigger picture, there were many other reasons, many just love to push the immigration part to the front, which many were concerned about I know but not the main reason for Brexit.

Janice Evans ● 3434d

There's nothing odd about it at all. In the south east and London in particular there are always perceived to be opportunities for all strata of society. It's where the investment is and has always been.If you live in an already depressed area 'up north' and have seen your life chances and those of your children diminish over the years and , say, the local car factory being relocated to and EU country and you have not seen any real benefits of being in the EU, then you would vote for change. After all, why would you vote for things to stay the same (ie; a perceived and real steady decline). That the cossetted middle class in London don't understand this is no surprise as there sympathies and concerns usually revolve around themselves and congratulating themselves on their devotion to 'diversity'and 'inclusion' etc. and never mind the poor, white northerners.Harsh, I know but that is at the root of what many think imo.Bob Dylan said it better than anyone here possibly could..'When you ain't got nothin', you got nothing to lose'.

Keith Iddon ● 3434d

Think people have the wrong idea, Brexit apparently wasn't about immigrants and more to do with having choices within their life and business life, the immigration part did not exist in most people's reason to leave.

Janice Evans ● 3434d

And in a way, that's what is so odd: London is full of immigrants of all sorts, working in Wetherspoons or wherever, yet voted to remain.Many places with far fewer immigrants, acknowledged to be a major issue in the vote, voted Leave.Same conundrum as why areas which benefit hugely from EU money, like Wales or Sunderland, voted Leave. Did they assume a UK government would support them in the same way from a much smaller pot? Did they not know how European money benefited them?

Sara Nathan ● 3434d

Excellent analysis Ed. Lucid explanation of current BTL hell.

Robert Murray ● 3435d

You might find that outside the M25 (yes..there is life out there) that you will be served by an English person, or Brit or whatever you wish to call them, as I was when I went to both Wetherspoon's pubs in Preston a few months ago.I spoke to 8 or 9 different staff on different nights/days and all of them were young locals.

Keith Iddon ● 3435d

Not the work place Pensions, believe Gordon Brown used funds that later affected the Private Pensions even though he had been made aware of what would happen if he used them so many elderly people were left with an insufficient pension.

Janice Evans ● 3435d

"Not sure how Tony Blair can be blamed for what happened to private pensions. They are by definition an arrangement between an employer and an employee."Actually it's entirely fair to blame Tony Blair and Gordon Brown for the closure of many final salary schemes and for the deteriorating returns in defined benefit / defined contribution schemes.One of Gordon Brown's first act was to abolish the ACT tax relief - it allowed pension funds to claim back the tax paid on dividends from companies in which they owned shares. This led to a significant drop in investment returns for reinvestment and thus the benefits that could be afforded. Interestingly Tony Blair and Gordon Brown repeatedly failed to drive any meaningful reform of Public Sector Pensions so we now have the amazing situation where workers in the Private Sector can expect to receive between 3 and 8% employer contributions to pensions whilst the public sector continues to receive an employer paid for pension benefits equivalent toto 40-60% of salary.The destruction of private sector pensions and failure to regulate banking were the two key drivers of the subsequent Buy to Let boom as workers started to invest in property instead - as we now know this has resulted in widespread under declaration of rental incomes for tax as well as distorting the housing market to the extent many people had no prospect of ever being able to afford their own home. This latter issue will finally be addressed next year by the new tax on Buy To Let gross rents rather than net profit on Buy to Lets.

Ed Yelland ● 3435d

Not sure how Tony Blair can be blamed for what happened to private pensions. They are by definition an arrangement between an employer and an employee. You could I suppose argue that by increasing NHS spending he increased life expectancy thereby making final salary pension less sustainable for companies.As for Wetherspoons the issue is not whether or not they are a good employer or not but is Tim Martin being a hypocrite by backing Brexit while employing a significant proportion of immigrant staff. I'm not sure that you can say he is - he may have supported Brexit for reasons other than a desire to control immigration. The danger of characterising all Brexiteers as innately anti-foreigner is that a significant proportion of them are not. For instance many who voted Leave are in favour of remaining in the single market with freedom of movement.Tim Martin's views seem to be more towards a hard Brexit but that doesn't mean less use of immigrants in his pubs just more Saffas and Aussies rather than Poles.

Paul Corcoran ● 3435d

As for Brexit, we will find out if good or bad eventually.

Janice Evans ● 3436d

Don't usually comment on politics as we have a good Government whoever is in power but do think Labour lost all the votes of elderly people because of what happen with the private pensions and probably won't win them back as those people lost out on a security they were relying on in their later years and had paid into all their working life.

Janice Evans ● 3436d

"For Brexiteers the lure of a romantic fantasy past that never existed merits the ultimate sacrifice. There is no logic to support their obsession."And for many of the people who voted to "remain" the uncomfortable truth is that Tony Blair is now on record stating that the reason Labour failed to make good on their promise of a referendum BEFORE the Lisbon treaty was ratified was because the British public would have rejected it. Which is why sovereign decision rights across numerous key areas were devolved to Brussels and 5 x presidents were created without the public even having a say in the matter. Labour always knows whats good for us as we can see on a daily basis right across Ealing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Lisbon#SummaryMany of the the loudest voices on the remain side continue to duck the issue of why we were signed up in the first place despite the promise to consult the public first - maybe some of them should have spoken up more forcefully at the time and held the then Labour government to account on it's promise of a referendum.The architects of the current mess are Tony Blair and Gordon Brown.

Ed Yelland ● 3436d

For Brexiteers the lure of a romantic fantasy past that never existed merits the ultimate sacrifice. There is no logic to support their obsession.

Robert Murray ● 3436d

That's interesting and dismisses what I was led to believe.

Janice Evans ● 3437d

Anyone capable of using google can quite quickly ascertain that Wetherspoons are actually quite a good / responsible employer to work for:- 17% of pub based staff are paid the living wage- all staff partcipitate in a company bonus scheme which is paid monthly- close to 40% of board directors are femaleThe company has unusually low staff turnover so presumably most of the staff like working for the company Tim Martin leads. Still it's always good to see people popping up on here to denegrate someone who has ultimately created 35,000 jobs and by all accounts is running a company many people like working for.

Ed Yelland ● 3438d

Wetherspoons web site says:"Employee turnover remains at an historic low."https://www.jdwetherspoon.com/about-us/our-people

Paul Webster ● 3438d

' A vast percentage of Polish employees'..evidence please.

Keith Iddon ● 3438d

It is hard to see any scenario other than a contraction in the economy in which immigration declines after Brexit. Any Government managing the challenges that the economy will present will not be turning down requests from businesses to import labour. The only difference will be that there will be fewer benefit entitlements for any workers that come here. As a tiny proportion come because of benefits the number arriving is unlikely to fall. Also remember any trade deal with countries like Australia, South Africa and New Zealand will include a loosening of work permit requirements and visa restrictions. I know a number of people who cheered the day young visitors from the Southern Hemisphere moved out of a nearby property they were occupying in large numbers and won't be looking forward to the possibility of their return.

Andy Jones ● 3438d

Partly true I suppose.  But as the minimum wage is the norm wouldn't it be only natural to find better options?He still employed/employs them now.

Sarah Vickers ● 3438d

Not sure how true this is and correct me if I'm wrong but I heard that the Employers don't like that the Polish etc., are more inclined to leave and then more time spent training new staff is what they were getting fed up with but as I say correct me if this is wrong information.

Janice Evans ● 3438d