Forum Topic

Dee Cook · 12/14/2006 10:47:00 AM

new.ActonW3.com Communtity Forum Topic posting

WHY WHEELIE BINS?

The London Borough of Ealing are part of the West London Waste Authority who are the people who dispose of the waste from the following boroughs: Brent / Hounslow / Hillingdon / Richmond upon Thames and Ealing.So it follows that in order for the WLWA to be efficient and effective that all the above members of their organisation have the SAME type of refuse collection, in order that all the waste collected can be properly monitored / recycled / reused, etc. Perhaps the Leader of the Council can let us know what the WLWA's policy is on standardising refuse collections from all of its constituent authorities?I note that Brent put out all their recycling materials in a totally recycable orange bag - drive to Brent Cross along the North Circular.So - what do we need in Ealing? Let's turn the whole debate on its head.One reyclable black bag with virtually nothing in it (once everyone separates). One recyclable orange bag with everything recyclable in it - the lot, plastics, the dreaded Tetra packs, paper, glass, tins, etc. One reusable green bin (made from recycled material) with wet waste.One recyclable pink bag for garden waste.One vehicle once a week to collect both orange, black, pink bags. (This can then be sorted by WLWA on their site) Vehicle to have 3 compartments.One vehicle once a week to collect green box wet waste.Simple.............. Environmentally sound ????? The cost of this scheme to the Council - nothing - except for the purchase of orange bags - which I believe the Mayor of London will gladly pay for from his Recycling Fund and adaptation of existing refuse vehicles to have 3 compartments - which again no doubt the Mayor of London would be glad to finance.

Dee Cook ● 7209d30 Comments

The flat I visit regularly out of borough the wheelie bin lorry empties the recycling wheelie bins whilst the operatives take a wheelie bin up each side of the street and tip the contents of the residents green boxes into them. The lorry catches up with the operatives and empties the wheelies and they carry on up the street. They collect much less recycling because they only collect tins, cans and plastic bottles one week and the newspapers and cardboard the next.You will see something like this happening along the red route towards Hangar Lane.Squashing anything like cans and plastic bottles makes a lot more space in your green box. There are several gadgets for crushing cans, tetrapaks and plastic bottles on the market if you can't by hand but I prefer a hard shoe. I noticed recently that the Persil washing-up bottle must have had a make-over as the plastic is much thinner. That will make it easier to flatten.

Philippa Bond ● 3929d

Presumably you would keep your green box and take it out to the wheelie bin once every 2 weeks.

Paul Webster ● 3936d

Having read Ealing's reasons for bringing in wheelie bins, why would a large wheelie bin for recycling, which is kept outside, rather than inside with easier access, make a householder more likely to recycle? Our green box fits snugly in a cupboard under the sink and bottles, cans and packaging go straight in. Perhaps someone could explain?

Libby Kemp ● 3936d

See article on www.ealingtoday.co.ukA small metal bin protecting a black sack is far more acceptable. We are supposed to be attempting to reduce our waste not increase it. Just because they are building an incinerator doesn't mean that I want to create feedstock specially for it...

Philippa Bond ● 3937d

The person who started a petition and one of several who tried to raise the problems for the small houses at the Isleworth & Brentford Area Forum.http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/residents-wall-in-council-leaders-house-with-wheelie-bins-a3120791.html

Philippa Bond ● 3942d

One of the protesters spent a few hours in police cell as a result.

Paul Webster ● 3943d

and there's more on www.brentfordtw8.com

Philippa Bond ● 3943d

https://twitter.com/brentfordtw8/status/667670952021467136/photo/1

Philippa Bond ● 3943d

Wheelie bins are always having other random stuff dropped on top of and into them which is why the green boxes work better for recycling.They are too big for many people's waste - even if it is two weeks' worth.There is supposed to be enforcement. If you look further back at this thread the question was being asked then. Neither party seems to have taken this need and the need for information and education seriously enough to be able to keep moving forward.I was at Ealing Jazz Festival this year and the arrangements for waste and recycling were terrible. It has just gone backwards over the years. Just garden waste wheelie bins! No continuity. Shameful.I couldn't agree more about enforcement. Is there anybody left to enforce? I heard that they have just engaged a private company perhaps someone needs a nudge to visit your road. They don't seem to be able to do anything on their own like following the bin lorry to find out how they can increase their recycling rate. You could always put an anonymous message on www.fixmystreet.com complaining about fly-tipping - because putting your waste out at the wrong time and in the wrong place is just that. Or contact Maire Lowe who has been looking at rubbish on the street with a couple of the Councillors and trying to find solutions.

Philippa Bond ● 3943d

We put out a black bag every other week and recycling weekly, I certainly do not want a b****y great wheelie bin in my front garden, which I take pride in keeping as a garden and not a car park. The supposed residence of an ambassador opposite put out probably seven or eight black bags a week and no recycling. The two illegal B & Bs or HMOs get round it by the one making the residents dispose of their own refuse, usually in the street bins, the other, the owner, every morning visits street bins in the area disposing of her refuse. They are not new to the area having lived here for twenty years plus. What would stop them using my wheelie bin? especially if weight charging came in, would I have to padlock my bin?But I do have a question for a councillor or officer. I was always told that one's refuse had to be put out either the evening before or before collection next day on the premises and in full view and with easy access for collection and NOT ON THE PAVEMENT. Some enforcement of this would be useful as it blocks the pavement and if the bags are attacked the rubbish is strewn across the pavement, and as mentioned by an earlier respondent sometimes it sits out for days.

Libby Kemp ● 3944d

The council says:"So who will get the new bins?All households that receive the doorstep black bag refuse collection and green box recycling collection will move to the new service, unless we believe their property is unsuitable. We will be writing individually to households early next year with information on the service they will receive from June 2016."So - what is needed is the criteria for determining that a property is unsuitable.There have been more recent discussions on he topic - but interesting to see that this has been discussed for 7+ years.

Paul Webster ● 3944d

Well here we are again.I see that the feisty residents in Brentford who have reduced their waste (landfill and recycling) and care about their little front terrace gardens and patios have shown their contempt at the lack of consultation and discussion and upset the Leader of the Council. WRAP said that a one-size-fits-all policy is not the way to go. Why aren't the Councils listening?It is becoming clearer that wheelie bins should not be placed close to windows and doors in these small properties. They are a safety hazard. We shouldn't have to wait for a tragedy here to learn the lesson.Reduce your waste and you won't feel so vulnerable.

Philippa Bond ● 3944d

Angela, did you see the press about recycling in Burnley and enforcement action being taken for people putting things in the wrong bags? There is something on Let's Recycle. It just goes to show how much damage Council high-handedness can cause to recycling and how there should be more consultation about things like the food waste bin.

Philippa Bond ● 7192d

thanks will be on to it jan 2nd

Jon Kennedy ● 7194d

This sounds like a nightmare John. You can get the orange/yellow stickers by becoming a Streetwatcher. To become a Streetwatcher contact Sue Wyatt by emailing her at wyatts@ealing.gov.ukGood luck John. Being a Streetwatcher will enable you to have access to customer services as a priority, both by phone and email, and will give you the tools to be more effective in cleaning this mess up. You'll get to know the team at the Town Hall by first name and feel more connected.

Angela White ● 7195d

well our neighbour put their bags out 23rd collected yesterday this morning they put another 4 so they are their till next wed the have a big garden at the back also front garden notice as well old bed thrown out and other household items they whole street looks like a skip the neighbours have lived their for 12 yrs you think they would know the rules by now i would love to put stickers on them where can i get them

Jon Kennedy ● 7195d

Just returned from a lovely family Christmas in Lancashire. Whilst there I took the time to note how they store refuse/recycling and what seems to work/what doesn't. My family moved up to a place just outside Burnley. They have 2 wheelie bins. Refuse and recycling are collected every other week. It works perfectly - all the neighbours lined up their bins this morning like little soldiers on the edge of their properties. Lovely. (Forgot to take a photo!)A few miles away, in Burnley itself, it was an entirely different story. Black bags (and sometimes no black bags) piled high in each wheelie bin and said wheelie bins left out on the pavement. This happens all week long, according to my Aunt who lives there. Some houses were too small for wheelie bins and they had small green recycling boxes like ours outside and they too were crammed with food and rubbish - no recycling that I could see. It was a complete mess. Many houses had piles of cardboard just thrown next to their wheelie bins, floating down the streets. An attempt at recycling or perhaps just a dump?Up the road, on the Yorkshire borders, they had small green boxes like ours but they had lids on them. Good idea as many residents here do attempt to recycle but sometimes just pile the box with paper and do not weigh it down, causing masses of paper to float around the streets on a windy day. So, the solution isn't wheelie bins IMHO. The problem lies with the user, not the appliance. Our green boxes are rather small now that we're (hopefully) recycling more and could do with lids. However, you can take a horse to water, but you can't make it drink (unless you use enforcement, of course!)

Angela White ● 7195d

If you try and make too great a change in too short a time then I think you will get more fly-tipping. You will also get people dumping waste in other people's wheelie bins.It is a shame because there is a lot which could still be done to increase voluntary recycling. If there had been more obvious input into pushing voluntary recycling forward showing how people have succeeded then it would be easier for others. Finding out what people's queries/ difficulties were for example (esp if not on the internet). The campaign that ran in the Ealing & Acton Gazette was very informative and seemed to bring in quite a few areas worth discussion. When I realised that there were more recycling facilities at Stirling Road than listed on the Council website I tried to find out how to get them publicised - who to go to. ECT said that they ran it for the Council and the Council said that ECT ran it for them. Nobody was taking responsibility. Gary Malcolm offered to help but first there has to be a reconciliation of what is on the two sites. I don't have the time and the question still remains - whose job is it?

Philippa Bond ● 7201d

‘Move to pay-as-you-throw on waste "unstoppable" (12.12.06)Local authority officers now see the move towards new charging systems for household waste as "unstoppable" – with only a matter of time before residents pay for the collection of waste they do not recycle.’ I think this type of forced system will only cause more flytipping and negative mood. Public recycling is unfortunately a relatively new initiative, people need time to get used to it and adjust their habits.

Julia Hunt ● 7201d

From Let's Recycle where there is a lot of information on what is going on eg the new recycling league tables (Ealing did not make its target).Move to pay-as-you-throw on waste "unstoppable" (12.12.06)Local authority officers now see the move towards new charging systems for household waste as "unstoppable" – with only a matter of time before residents pay for the collection of waste they do not recycle. Although the Sir Michael Lyons review on council funding has now been delayed until April – potentially limiting what the new English waste strategy can say on the subject – recycling officers believe variable charging is now "looming on the horizon". The unstoppable juggernaut that is variable charging is slowly accelerating down the waste highway. - Lee Marshall, LARAC In its annual report issued last week, the Local Authority Recycling Advisory Committee said variable charging – sometimes known as "pay as you throw" – would not be the "magic spanner" to fix every problem in recycling. But LARAC chairman Lee Marshall said it "should be used in the most appropriate manner, alongside well-designed well-designed and implemented schemes coupled with good education and communication." Commenting as the government reviews the long-term English waste strategy for an expected publication in March next year, Mr Marshall said: "The unstoppable juggernaut that is variable charging is slowly accelerating down the waste highway. It still has a long way to go before it hits maximum speed, but we can all see it looming on the horizon." UrgencyThe move towards variable charging is being prompted by a "growing sense of urgency and concern" among officers about landfill targets despite some districts and counties now recycling more than half of their waste. The LARAC chairman said officers are now saying if planning applications for major recycling and waste recovery facilities have not been submitted by now, "you will miss the 2010 target" under Europe's Landfill Directive. This, he suggested, meant there was a need for a "plan B" on household waste. Mr Marshall, who is also a recycling officer at Powys county council, urged LARAC's 400-plus recycling officer members not to "get hung up" on issues like increased fly-tipping or administration difficulties with regard to variable charging. He said: "There are certainly problems, but they can be overcome, especially if the energies expended in highlighting them are used to solve them." Environment secretary David Miliband has already revealed his interest in variable charging as it is investigated by government advisor Sir Michael Lyons (see letsrecycle.com story). Related links: LARAC The Lyons review was extended last week until the Budget next April, in order for Sir Michael Lyons to take account of points raised by other policy reviews including the Barker review on planning. Noting the negative stories in the national media this autumn concerning council waste policies, Mr Marshall advised officers to maintain a "whiter than white" approach to recycling, making sure audit trails are correct, services are customer-friendly and recyclable materials are not being sent "to somewhere they shouldn't go".

Philippa Bond ● 7202d

Why won’t the council answer any questions on enforcement?

Julia Hunt ● 7202d

So are there any plans to ‘improve’ enforcement Jason?

Julia Hunt ● 7207d

"Storage of wasteAll refuse should be properly stored in large, sealed bin/rubbish bags. These can be purchased at any supermarket. The London Borough of Hounslow does not supply any type of rubbish container to its residents.Provision of wheelie binsDue to the costs of providing the London Borough of Hounslow with wheelie bins, these are not available from the Council.The London Borough of Hounslow has a waste minimisation policy, which encourages people to reduce the amount of waste they put out out for collection in their black sacks by making more use of their green box and through smarter shopping.Should you wish to discuss this matter further, you should contact your local Councillor."It would have been good to have seen this kind of paragraph on the Ealing website.Like you Doris I am sure that the provision of wheelie bins encourages people not to bother recycling. We have a good system already. It needs better publicity and then probably enforcement where it is obvious that someone is blatantly not doing anything at all. Nobody has ever door stepped me regarding the food waste box which is the one part of the system which stops the problem of torn black sacks.I haven't seen anything asking flat dwellers to contact the council to see if they can have green boxes and food waste bins as this should depend on the situation.It would be good to have another reporter at the Gazette attempting to go green.Also there is not enough information: The website needs updating so that the list of green box items can easily be printed off to display on fridge doors. It took me three weeks to get the list put right after it had become corrupted. There was nothing wrong with my browser the problem was that everybody was reading the words and not thinking at the same time. The words did not make sense because they were in the wrong boxes.Noticeboards which we eventually got are not big enough - I would like to see more like the one outside Brentford Fountain Leisure Centre where quite a few posters can be stuck. We need them by the bottle banks outside parks to say where the other nearest recycling centres are, how to get a green box, where bigger things can be recycled etc etc and at this time of year where Christmas trees and cards will be able to be recycled. At present they just seem to publicise concerts.

Philippa Bond ● 7207d

Dear DorisThank you for your posting directed to me. It is clear that you have strong opinion on wheelie bins. Many others support your view but many do not. It is the basis as to why we are consulting at present on the different options and decisions will be made on what comes back from all residents. There are some areas of the borough where the current arrangements are not working and need improving - what the final scheme to achieve this is even we do not know yet as it would seem pretty pointless running a consultation if we have already made our minds up.You are right when you say that wheelie bins can increase the overall amount of waste that is produced. This is why the recycling rate for options A and B are the same at 35% - under option B more is being recycled, but as part of a higher total collection of waste. However, this is not because new waste is suddenly produced, but because it is now becoming part of the waste disposal system. Therefore you have to ask where is this waste at the moment and one could argue it is the waste that currently sits in side alleys etc... and forms part of the waste that is not actually collected as part of the household waste collection but rather as, for example, as dumped rubbish.In terms of a new scheme coming in, all the options have been produced in conjunction with our contractor and we are allowing a long lead in time to ensure all potential problems are ironed out before a new scheme goes live.Hope this is helpfulJason

Jason Stacey ● 7207d

Dear Leader,I have briefly read the CPA (Audit Commission) report on Brent's Waste Collection Service. It is rated as FAIR. No doubt you are aiming that Ealing Council be rated as EXCELLENT - so what Brent are presently doing does not produce the goods. My point is that Ealing Council already have a refuse contract which is workable given Enforcement backup. Why not give it that backup?Why change it just because people will not use it properly.Wheelie bins will increase the amount of rubbish you will have to dispose of - without a doubt. They are a wonderful way of lazy people disposing of their rubbish.So, are discussions with the Unions progressing on the way any new system will work one hundred percent from day one? What training programmes for the workforce are currently being worked on?

Dee Cook ● 7208d

I have briefly read the CPA (Audit Commission) report on Brent's Waste Collection Service. It is rated as FAIR. No doubt you are aiming that Ealing Council be rated as EXCELLENT - so what Brent are presently doing does not produce the goods. My point is that Ealing Council already have a refuse contract which is workable given Enforcement backup.Why change it just because people will not use it properly.Wheelie bins will increase the amount of rubbish you will have to dispose of - without a doubt. They are a wonderful way of lazy people disposing of their rubbish.So, are discussions with the Unions progressing on the way any new system will work one hundred percent from day one?

Dee Cook ● 7208d

Doris. I should just point out that already two areas of the borough do have wheelie bins. One is in the North Greenford area and the other in Perivale. Both were transferred into Ealing from Brent in the early 90's and presumably part of the deal was that those residents kept their wheelie bins.In terms of different collection arrangements for different areas of the borough, this is actually not overly difficult if done on the right size nor does it necessarily become more expensive. Outside London waste storage and collection is organised by district councils with populations mainly of between 60-80,000 and one district council may have a different collection method to its neighbour. Ealing has a population of 303,000 - effectively 4 to 5 times the size of one district council. Some may not agree on principle of the council going down this path should it decide to, but operationally it is certainly very feasible.

Jason Stacey ● 7208d

Oh dear so Brent must have different collection arrangements in different areas. That's what is being suggested for Ealing, which will fit in with what the WLWA want!!!! Brent looks a mess so I suppose this mixed type service is not working properly - there are orange bags on the pavements along the North Circular Road virtually 7 days a week.Your friend's small front garden full of wheelie bins must look delightful !!! Ban flowers and vegetation and put in wheelie bins!!!! ho ho

Dee Cook ● 7209d

But Doris, my friend in Brent now has wheelie bins (she used to have a green box) and those people in Brent who recycle have hardly anything in the large waste bin which helps with the other one to fill her small front garden. I've seen orange bags in Hammersmith. It is supposed to be a better system to sort at source rather than send the bags somewhere else to be sorted - better quality of materials - which is what we have at the moment.

Philippa Bond ● 7209d