Forum Topic

Parking Permit Renewal Blues

I have just tried to order visitor permits online, only to find I need a PIN. Rang parking services and got through! Apparently PIN is sent out with renewal notice - so if you didn't get a renewal notice then you won't have one. They have said they will send PIN to me today - 1st class. Let's see..

Angela Peel ● 5937d39 Comments

If anyone is in the process of renewing K permit and could get some extra visitor permits for me, I'd be so grateful. I already have a permit at home, but to unload/park near work once a week would be another £250.

Becky Bell ● 5937d

You should load/unload on yellow lines, which you can do for up to 20 mins on any occasion. As for parking (as opposed to loading/unloading), using visitor permits to MISuse residents' parking space for non-resident commuter purposes, while not making a bona-fide visit to a nearby household is a clear abuse of the system and is NOT what visitor permits are meant for. When the visitor permit system was first introduced it was with a clear warning that the Council would be watching for residents asking for excessive numbers of visitor permits, and would withdraw their availability in such cases.I just hope somebody in the Council reads your posting here and has the diligence and integrity to report the matter and get a stop put to your attempted abuse of the visitor permit system and evasion of the due business parking fee.

Chris Veasey ● 5937d

One of my neighbour's runs a B & B (without planning permission) and gives his guests visitor permits.  This is on a road where apart from his house, where he does not let his guest’s park, all the other properties have to park on the road. There a constant coming and going, guests smoking outside neighbour's windows and most days at least two of the limited spaces are taken up by his guests.  To compound it all they are a particularly unpleasant couple when it comes to neighbour issues.Becky's request for the odd parking permit seems most reasonable compared with this.

Libby Kemp ● 5936d

That's a bit like saying casual theft is 'reasonable' compared to armed robbery. Misusing visitor permits for commercial loading/unloading and/or commuter parking at one'sown business premises, rather than their intended and lawful purpose of bona fide visit to a local resident is still an abuse of the system, and amounts to theft of the parking facilities for which residents pay. Are you seriously condoning such abuse, and hence theft?

Chris Veasey ● 5936d

Chris, How do think "excessive numbers of visitor permits" should be calculated? I play a lot of Bridge which requires at least three permits once a week plus I have friends visiting at least 2/3 per week, so I probbably get through at least 5 per week, sometimes more. I have yet to be investigated.

Angela Peel ● 5936d

Well, I cycle to work except when I have a load to carry - about once a week/fortnight. I pay a full permit for where my car is parked for the other six days a week. Sorry if you feel this is wrong. I will feed the meter instead on that one day a week/fortnight, rather than pay £250 for a second permit. But finding all that change is a pain....

Becky Bell ● 5936d

Oh, and regarding unloading on yellow lines for 20 minutes, I wouldn't dare! Even when stopped in the loading bay the warden is photographing windscreen before I can even unlock my door to unload!!! And abusive to boot.

Becky Bell ● 5936d

Indeed it is very difficult to assess, and hence detect abuse. The fact remains that the system is subject to significant abuse, with the result that residents in some CPZ streets, eg near railway stations, while paying for annual parking permits, often find themselves unable to park near their homes because of spurious use of visitor parking permits other than by bona fide visitors. Such residents can also find their bona fide visitors inconvenienced by those misusing the system.The situation was not helped by the previous Council administration's (a) ruling that visitor permit users did not have to write on the permit the address visited; and (b) giving away batches of 'universal' visitor permits as a voter bribe (unsuccessfully as it turned out at the election).

Chris Veasey ● 5936d

You are perfectly legally entitled to use the yellow line rstricted kerbside (when and where there's not also a loading ban, and/or where you are not causing obstruction to passing traffic) for up to 20 minutes, and it's absurd that you should allow yourself to be 'scared' off exercising that entitlement. If however you can't manage to complete the loading or unloading operation in 20 minutes (and you're even allowed to take a break to go to the lavatory during that time, following a test case in court many years ago), or within the maximum allowable time on a meter/ticket bay, what sort and quantity of goods are you carrying, and what monster vehicle are you needing to use to ransport that much stuff?If the warden is 'abusive' get his/her number and lodge (and pursue) a formal conplaint with the Council  -  geting witnesses and/or video clip if possible.

Chris Veasey ● 5936d

"Even when stopped in the loading bay the warden is photographing windscreen before I can even unlock my door to unload!!!"That's just to record the time that you started unloading.

Richard Jennings ● 5936d

No monster vehicle or even van, and take less than ten minutes carrying it up road. And only about once a fortnight, if that.

Becky Bell ● 5936d

Right, so what's the (real) problem using the lawful loading/unloading facilities instead of taking residents' parking space?

Chris Veasey ● 5936d

There is no problem, you've given me a ticking off for trying to make my life a bit easier, so I will feed the meters. Once unloaded what do you think I do with my car? It doesn't take itself home so that I can get on with my work. When I've nothing to carry, I cycle, as I've already said. So I'm not taking up resident bays. In fact, probably being more considerate than most by leaving my car at home whenever possible.

Becky Bell ● 5936d

If you don't live too far away from your business mightn't it be better to drive back home after dropping off the goods and cycle back to work?  -  all depends on how you value travel time against parking costs  -  or fit a detachable trailer to your bike on goods delivery day, thereby saving fuel as well as parking costs? Not knowing the particular circumstances of your business and how far you live from it I can't comment further. Having said that I acknowledge that parking controls can be a bit of a blunt instrument that can't be finely tailores to everybody's individual circumstances, particularly some bizfolk. But the fact remains that while you clearly see yourself as a one-off special case, if there's many local bizfolk following your example of visitor permit (mis)use, then that can result in local residents (and/or their bona fide visitors) being crowded out of the permit parking space they pay for.

Chris Veasey ● 5936d

My house backs on to Park Royal Road which is about to be an extension to an existing CPZ. I have not received any information, although one of the new signs has been uncovered and shows residents only parking for two one hour periods weekdays only. This will not help the residents at all for the majority of the time because it is an ideal place for parking close to a station, and the huge blocks of flats built without parking space, at other times, and I will still have problems when I return. I would prefer the space to be used by someone doing useful work 0900-1700 if I am out all day, they are likely to have departed before I return. It is just another excuse to soak money from the residents.

Chris Bell ● 5936d

"If you don't live too far away from your business mightn't it be better to drive back home after dropping off the goods and cycle back to work? "What an efficient way for Becky to spend her working day!!

Jen Morty ● 5936d

That's why I said dependiog on how far away from home she lives. How efficient is it for local residents to be unable to park in their residents' parking space near their homes (a facility they pay for through their annual permit charge) for their comings and goings during the day because business and/or commuter cars are sitting there occupying it all day?

Chris Veasey ● 5936d

"I would prefer the space to be used by someone doing useful work 0900-1700 if I am out all day, they are likely to have departed before I return. It is just another excuse to soak money from the residents."-  not all residents commute eleswhere to work. many of us work from home or are retired and have meny occasions to be coming and going by car during the day. So being unable to park near their homes just so commuters' cars can sit there all day occupying it is a serious incovenience, particularly for thos residents who suffer an any sort of mobility impairment.-  also many commuters are not back till well after 17.00  -  many do not come back to take their cars away till well into the evening.That's part of the problem, many councillors and officers live your sort of lifestyle and think everybody does  -  or couldn't give a toss about those that don't.

Chris Veasey ● 5936d

But two restriction periods of one hour each Monday to Friday will not stop parking behind my house. I do not work 0900 to 1700, I am on a pension, but I still go out and return at random times of day and frequently watch someone move in as soon as I move out. I am not a couch potato, I am still active, and still carry sometimes heavy and / or valuable items.

Chris Bell ● 5936d

Right so your situation is similar to many of us residents, whether retired or working from home, who have to go out during the day and find our parking space taken by the likes of commuters when we get back.The two one-hour breed of CPZ around stations at least keeps the all-day commuters out, though not those popping in by train to Harrods or wherever for a few hours shopping or other purposes outside the control hours. But as I said, parking control is a bit of a blunt instrument but better than no control at all in many situations.

Chris Veasey ● 5936d

Can I just make it clear that however I pay for parking it does not affect how much space I use. I do not park outside your home but in a business street, and I would use the same bay whether I pay by meter, day voucher, or full-time permit. Either way my vehicle will be there and I will have paid.And I'm NOT commuting, but coming in and out. For efficency I plan all my driving/shifting of goods/loading for the one day so that I can cycle the rest of the time. And a pain it is feeding the meter each time I stop.If I had a £250 full permit you could say I'd be more likely to bring the car when it's raining or I'm tired - after all if I've paid for 365 days why not use them? When I'm parked near work, I'm leaving a paid residents bay at home free for someone else. (And no, I can't work off a bike trailer!)I'm often given day vouchers when I'm working in people's homes (I hope you don't object to me parking in their resident bay when lifting heavy goods?) and it's so much more convenient. It would be useful if the council could sell business day permits, then maybe more people would leave their cars at home when they don't need them. As many of us work in different zones it would also be good if we could buy an all-round permit, say £500 per year to park anywhere (with exceptions like stations), in addition to our home permit. I've been offered day permits before by helpful people, but realise it was unwise to request them on here!

Becky Bell ● 5936d

So it costs me money but does not stop the many residents of the nearby HMO's and the huge blocks of flats near North Acton station let without parking spaces, nor the late afternoon and evening visitors to central London, from parking here. The most vocal requests for the CPZ were due to blocked access to garages, but that is just as easily dealt with without a CPZ.

Chris Bell ● 5936d

Right, so you're gradually making clear in instalments what your actual pattern of vehicle-related activity actually is!Use of a visitor voucher given to you by a householder for the purpose of working or providing a service at their home is of course a legitimate use of the voucher, to which nobody could reasonable object.Your suggestion of day biz user parking vouchers has some merit, provided effective ways can be devised to prevent misuse  -  though I would challenge your apparent belief that bizfolk on the job should have a right to free parking wherever and whenever they need or wish. As a transport consultant I often have a need to park in all sorts of places across London (and in other towns when I can get the work) and where there's parking control I just have to '"feed" (as you rather emotively put it) the meter and charge it to the client as a disbursement if I can, or failing that at least get the tax element back by charging it to my own company as an expense. I wouldn't dream of expecting society to confer on me the privilege of a Londonwide or countrywide (or even boroughwide) biz user parking permit.And please don't come that about your parking in residents' space at your workplace (you now claim it's a 'business street' so how come there's residents' parking bays there if there's no residents?) freeing up space where you live  -  that may please your neighbours in your home area but it doesn't help residents near your workplace -  robbing Peter to pay Paul (or Petra to pay Paula) in that way is likely to provoke justifiable reaction from Peter/Petra if they find out they're being robbed.

Chris Veasey ● 5936d

Feeding the meter is hardly an emotive term!  Regarding your 1st sentence I am not sure the tone you intended but it certainly strikes me as rude.  She hardly needs to set out her daily/weekly etc parking routine for your scrutiny and approval.

Jen Morty ● 5936d

Sounds like you need an all-day CPZ rather than the minimalist two hours per day one you have  -  but be warned the zone needs to be a small tight area otherwise you'll get residents from the further reaches of the zone (or even from a couple of streets away driving to your street and using their permits (lawfully but unfairly) to use your resident bays as their free station carpark.The HMO/ blocks of flats problem is an incrasingly srrious problem in some areas (West Ealing station area is another example), where the dwellings existed or were permitted before there was a CPZ in the area, because the residents of those dwellings can't then be denied an on-street resident parking permit. Where the flats come along in an area already covered by a CPZ all future occupants can be daberred from permit eligibility asd a condition of planning permission for the development.

Chris Veasey ● 5936d

No she doesn't 'need' to, but if she doesn't she can't complain (nor can you on her behalf) if she attracts replies that don't fully address her actual situation.And if you think it's 'rude' to point that out in a straightforward way you must be a fragile sensitive little soul! Perhaps it's a north-south divide cultural problem.

Chris Veasey ● 5936d

Did she need her replies to "address her actual situation"?  She only asked if anyone could give her a few visitors vouchers,  she does not need to go into laborious details as to why,  and many people on this forum would know why anyway since she is a regular poster.  If you do not think she should have visitors vouchers,  fine,  say so but you do not have to be rude about it.  I note that we "can't complain" clearly you are under the delusion that complaining is your preogative.Your "straightforward" way in my book came across as rude.  As indicated earlier it may not have been meant that way but that is how I read it.  And no I am NOT a fragile sensitive little soul!

Jen Morty ● 5936d

We clearly have a cultural difference problem here.

Chris Veasey ● 5936d

Cultural difference?

Jen Morty ● 5936d

In ways of expressing things. I note Becky herself has not seen fit to intepret plain straightforward comment as 'rude' - just you, unasked, on her behalf.Anyway I'm not going to get dragged down even further into what has now degenerated into a trivial pointless dingdong -  far too many of those on these forums.

Chris Veasey ● 5936d

Actually not generally on this forum which is astonishingly polite.I think, Chris, you are addressing Becky in a forthright way you wouldn't dream of doing face-to-face - something I have noticed is common on other forums.I find myself being more direct - seen as others such as inefficient council officers or hopeless customer service operatives - as being rude, when I see it as straightforward. But when I think about it, I quite often use a turn of phrase and even insinuation to an extent I would never dream of doing on the phone or in person.Electronic communication is quite a challenge to our own notions of civility isnn't it?

Sara Nathan ● 5936d

I am terribly sorry for "dragging" you down and "degenerating" into a dingdong!  I certainly was NOT  intending a ding dong,  just stating my opinion after all this is a discussion forum.  In any event I agree with you (yes it can happen) there is little point in progressing and the initial posters thread has digressed somewhat,  mind due that does tend to happen!

Jen Morty ● 5936d

I like "mind due" very muchBut did you mean "mind you"?

Sara Nathan ● 5936d

Ah but we've never met so are you sure of that? I see nothing I've posted here I wouldn't say face to face.

Chris Veasey ● 5936d

Ha ha yes Sara I did,  clearly had a brain fart! Thanks for highlighting it :-)  I think I ought to go and do some cleaning and put out my garden set that has just arrived from John Lewis before it starts raining,  and stop using the forum as avoidance for chores which is so easily done!

Jen Morty ● 5935d

Sara,  just in case you are on a proof reading mission this morning I am WELL AWARE of the spelling mistake regarding amenable on the hedge thread!  I do read before submitting but sometimes my brain notices teh errot just as I,  in my enthisiam,  hit submit!Now spot the spelling errors here which I have left for my own amusement!

Jen Morty ● 5935d

I am a printer's daughter and a journalist so therefore can't help myself - my mind is permanently in sub-editor mode - it's an affliction.

Sara Nathan ● 5935d

So, I have ordered my next lot of visitors vouchers online. Just waiting to see how long they take to arrive. I hope they don't take too long or my bridge friends will have have to use pay and display - ouch!

Angela Peel ● 5932d

Angela Peel ● 5932d