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Some thoughts occur to me as I read through this thread.Firstly, Chris asks the very sensible question about where the money will come from.  On the DfE website it says, "We will reallocate from the Harnessing Technology Fund to restart the Standards and Diversity Fund which was establiashed in 2008 to promote new schools."Colin very helpfully posted the Rebecca Allen report from the Institute of Education.  I read her conclusions as the following:  If there is any effect it is positive and may be significant.  Those reports which show lower improvements or negative effects are based on less good data. There is little evidence of long term benefit.  Certain sectors of society have benefitted whilst others haven't.Regarding the third point I would say that this is the sort of result you would expect where teachers teach to the test and you get a boost in the examination year and then fewer transferable skills.  This is something that we are designing our curriculum to avoid at the WLFS.  The fourth point is significant but Rebecca Allen's report states that the improvement in standards is due to better performing private schools but also better performance in the state municiple schools that improve in response to the private schools.  So this means that in both sets of schools students from more highly educated backgrounds are improving, but others are not.  This is a puzzle, but it is not the case that free schools are just educating students from more highly educated backgrounds.Jim and Colin indulge in some middle class bashing, totally discounting the idea that members of the middle class might act for charitable reasons or for the good of the local community.  Is nobody else bothered by this?Jim mentions catchment areas and I would respond by saying that we want a significant proportion of our admissions to come from a lottery system if possible. We feel this is the fairest possible system as it is a system that can't be 'played' by those with financial resources.  It will then be our job to market our school so people will know what they are being offered and so attract applicants from all areas and social backgrounds.Colin goes on to say that free schools are monopolised by the middle class and they squeeze out children from other strata of society.  Well we hope that our admissions policy will avoid this and it should be noted that the Swedish experience is not transferable here as they have a first come first served admissions policy, which may favour some groups.Jen asks Colin how he knows who has been asked to be involved with setting up this school.  Colin and others will recall from the last thread on this topic that we exchanged views on that I asked anybody who was interested from anywhere or any background to get in touch with me or Toby.  A completely open invitation.  Nobody is being excluded from being involved.Colin asks that as local(why?) taxpayers we should consider whether the WLFS will be worth it.  This is a sensible question (minus the local bit).  We have shown using council data that there will be a shortfall of provision for secondary places in Ealing in the future, this is in addition to the extra places already planned by Ealing in its BsF plans.  So more places do need to be provided.  We will provide the places needed at a fraction of the cost that has been the norm to spend on the number of places that we propose.  I would have thought that saving many millions of pounds would be a useful thing to do in this age of austerity.Finally, one of the things we will impress on students is that an ad hominem attack is a flaw in an argument, it doesn't address the issue and it normally means that the arguer is short of an actual argument.

Charlie Ben-Nathan ● 5927d

So where does my argument fall short? Rebecca Allen's paper is sceptical of the benefits of the Free Schools the BBC reported this as such this week:http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/10376457.stmOr Michael White of the Guardian:http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/jun/24/michael-gove-free-schools-policyBut as  always do, you will probably say this is the stuff of nonsense Michael White is bonkers and the Beeb have a hidden agenda. Who are the BBC to see it differently to you Charlie? Good old fashioned pinkos now that the Etonians are back in power.Yes I read Allen's conclusions as different to you but there is no surprise there as you are the one trying build it and we will all ultimately pay for it. "Jim and Colin indulge in some middle class bashing, totally discounting the idea that members of the middle class might act for charitable reasons or for the good of the local community."Scepticism dear man, put it down to good old scepticism. And I do not think that a posting on here is a justifiable open invitation to the people of the South Acton estate after all more people have seen Lord Lucan drinking in the Rocket than read this forum.I am not convinced by the Free Schools I have read enough evidence that they have failed in Sweden and may not survive after the Swedish elections in September.Ad hominem now there's middle class for you trying belittle with your dead language.I am glad that your students will know their ad hominem from their elbows and will be able to construct a gentlemanly argument but it is your choice to consider whether my comments were legitimate or otherwise.Here's another ad hominem for you to sleep on Charlie.Where's Toby then? Running around with that film crew  making that doco on how he will save the children from the dark satanic mills of Acton. Yes the man can not do anything without the help of his mates in TV land.You  probably will get your school but when the education budget is slashed by 25% to fund your folly and teachers and support staff are sacked I hope you all sleep soundly.There's my argument backed up with sources I look forward to your counter claims.

Colin Carroll ● 5927d

When you've composed yourself Colin I'd be interested to hear your argument. It isn't "the most vulnerable kids" who will suffer from the winding down of the BSF programme but building companies, project managers, architects and educational consultants. And it would have been cut regardless of whether a policy of allowing parents and teachers to set up Free Schools was in place or not. Labour had planned for a 50 per cent cut in capital spending across all department and that would have included a cut in the school buildings programme. Indeed, Ed Balls was asked in the House of Commons in January whether Labour would ring-fence school capital spending and the answer was no.The winding up of BSF doesn't mean that Ealing's existing school buildings won't be refurbished or that the 3,200 additional places the Council is hoping to provide won't be created. Rather, Ealing will just have to reapply for funding after the public spending review in October.I don't think Caroline or I would ever argue that setting up a Free School in Ealing is just about providing our own children with a classical liberal education. After all, we only have four children and we hope to create a school that will eventually accommodate over 750 children, with an additional 120 entering the school each year. Of course, the school's ethos and curriculum won't appeal to everybody, but it's deeply patronising to assume it will only appeal to middle class parents. Believe it or not, there are some non-middle class parents who would like their children to receive a rigorous, academic education, but don't have access to it because they're not in the right catchment area or of the right particular faith and cannot afford to move or go private.Finally, I think we can agree that "the most vulnerable kids in our neighbourhood" are those in care. Rest assured, we will give them absolute priority if they apply to our school, admitting them before anyone else.

Toby Young ● 5918d

"It isn't "the most vulnerable kids" who will suffer"A shameful response but not unexpected. Well Toby why don't you come to the special needs school that I work in and explain to the students that I work with that the virtual reality tour of the new build, was just that, virtual and nothing more. You won't be able to spout the dogma of Michael Gove to these students because due to their learning disabilities they are not too clued up on Keynesian or Freedman economics.How can you possibly say that the most vulnerable won't suffer you probably will never have to work with them. Yes they will suffer this new build was tailor made  for their requirements it would have impacted on their learning and given them a better chance in life. The students had a lot of input into the design of the new build and they have been made aware of its progress and they were all looking forward to the move.Last week I saw absolute joy on the kid's faces. I have not been back to find out how they feel since Michael Grinch has cancelled part of their future. You might accuse me of being melodramatic but I am just telling you what I saw and what I know. No Toby the most vulnerable are not just the ones in carea lot of them are living with disabilities in loving families who wish that they gain the best skills they can for the times when their families won't be around. While we are at it, Michael Grinch also cancelled the new build at another school for students with the most severe disabilities and not to mention the PRU(where I come across kids who are in care).Go and build your school  and while your at it formulate a moral argument to justify the expense in these austere times and then come and tell the kids that I work with what is going on.So there's my argument based on reality but I am sure you will try to convince me otherwise. You and Charlie might think I am the village idiot but I know what I am talking about and most of all I have a lot of experience of what I am talking about.

Colin Carroll ● 5918d

That's exactly right, Charlie. Setting up Free Schools in leased buildings is a more cost effective way of meeting the anticipated rise in demand for secondary school places than sticking up new builds. Equally cost effective would be to expand existing secondary schools, but that's not what parents want. With a few exceptions, parents want a wider choice of smaller schools, not a narrower choice of bigger schools. Anne Brown says that her impression at the first meeting held at my house to discuss the West London Free School is that the parents who attended wanted a taxpayer-funded private school. If you substitute the word "independent" for "private", I wouldn't quibble with that. What's wrong with wanting a school that delivers the sort of education that's available at Latymer Upper School or St Paul's but which is free at the point of entry? Provided you design the admissions policy so there's no way that middle class parents can secure preferential treatment for their children -- which we intend to do -- I can't see why anyone would object to it. You can describe a rigorous, academic education as "middle class" if you like, but as Maire points out it appeals to plenty of non-middle class parents as well.In response to the lady from the South Acton estate, please tell any parents you come across with children in Year 5 or below to email newfreeschool@googlemail.com with their contact details and what year their children are currently in. Then, when the time comes for them to apply on their children's behalf, I can email them a reminder. If they don't have access to a computer, then perhaps she could do it on their behalf, including their addresses so I can send them a reminder by post.

Toby Young ● 5915d

Maire,  Ouch! I have obviously touched a nerve  in my defence of Stephen Pound but you also refer back to my previous posts on Toby’s school........Might not be just ‘middle class’ residents in favour of Toby’s school but the steering group profiles confirm  who is in charge! – see their websiteNot me with Prosecco I’m afraid, red wine or lager for me, all too often seen in many supermarkets locally as I search for something different to eat. Cheap Wine used to be c.£3.99 but is now more likely at £4.99.Yes I do like Earl Grey, but also have a variety of herbal teas left over from Julie, kept for visitors.I also like Waitrose, for some reason the security guard at Chiswick follows me as I explore the isles looking for reduced items. No problem at West Ealing though.Not sure choice of tea a good indicator for class?Class is a very tricky issue, I have no problems with being ‘middle class’. My parents despite first two homes being council owned were aspirational and through a frugal 1950’s my dad progressed his career staying with the same employer for 40 years. My mum (with 4 children) was bored stiff as he would not allow her to work. I was the only one to make it to university, very few did in 1970. I then gained a professional qualification  and have happily stayed in social housing ever since. I have never earnt large sums but as a consultant can get a good daily rate, but jobs are short term and currently in short supply.Julie’s parents were both care workers and lowly paid. One of seven Julie defined herself genuinely working class.  Julie was the only one to reach college, qualifying as a Librarian. Her father with his siblings were in a workhouse in Ipswich before joining the army at 14. She would never share a piece of fruit, memories of being the youngest!‘Middle class’ is a very broad spectrum. We could never have afforded private education even if we had wanted it. We were fortunate in an excellent state primary and Acton High, which could have been better but produced two boys who were successful at Richmond College and at University (Youngest just has 2.1 from Sussex). I was a primary governor for 16 years, Julie was always involved in the primary PTA including being chair. She also helped out at Acton PTA, as did I briefly as Father Christmas.....Another version of ‘Middle Class’ presumes private education as of right, they will use state primaries if thought ‘ok’ (John Betts and Belmont for example) and then decamp (dumping former friends who stay in the state system –according to a friend who’s child was at Belmont)Unfortunately this version of the class sometimes find that they cannot afford their expectation. Hence Toby’s comment at the very start of the debate, what with 4 under  5’s  or whatever.The steering group for Toby’s school has recently widened slightly but remains essentially people that had a private education or work in private education and want a quasi private education for their children, paid for by us.  At least they have lost the women with distant royal connections.....Toby’s original ideas were laughable, ‘Comprehensive Grammar’ for example. We now have a proposal for an Academy, following slightly dodgy admissions criterion but that’s not Toby’s fault it’s the way Academies work (A puzzling Labour Government invention)It remains a quasi 1950’s Grammar what with motto and compulsory Latin and presumably an expensive uniform you will not get from Asda. It will be run by a profit making service company, possibly from Sweden, in premises which will more than likely not meet current standards.The coalition’s cuts to Building for Schools has placed the Toby school firmly in the frame as the favoured minority against the mainstream, to the expense of the many. £500k has been awarded to a lobby group staffed by 2 former Gove aides to promote Toby schools. The cash came from School IT development budgets.Maire,  I have no doubt that you believe that Toby’s school will provide a better opportunity for children from Acton. I do not agree.You are very welcome at my home for a cup of Earl Grey and to discuss further, send me a PM  if you want to follow this up. (presuming its working)Best WishesIain

Iain Muir ● 5914d

Iain, I'm afraid your mistaken in almost every particular.I was not privately educated. I went to two comprehensives and a grammar school.I would still like the West London Free School to be a "comprehensive grammar". Not my "laughable" idea. The Labour Party's. I quote from a 1964 Labour election leaflet: "Comprehensive education does not mean that the virtues of the grammar school are destroyed. They will be extended to a wider group of children whose talents will be enriched by the higher standards created for all by the comprehensive system." (You can read chapter and verse on this here http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/tobyyoung/100038176/free-schools-is-a-comprehensive-grammar-a-contradiction-in-terms/)The idea is and always has been for the West London Free School to be an Academy. Our school won't have "slightly dodgy admissions criteria". Bit odd, that one, considering we haven't got a set of admissions criteria and won't have one until we've consulted with the local authority, the Department for Education, et al. But rest assured that whatever criteria we adopt they won't be "dodgy". On the contrary, they will be compatible with the School Admissions Code, i.e., fully inclusive. Far from favouring middle class applicants, I don't even know that my own children will get in.We may subcontract the day-to-day operation of the school to a commercial education provider. Then again, we may not. Plenty of commercial companies provide services to both the DfE and the Children's Services Departments of local authorities -- Serco, VT, Nord Anglia, EdisonLearning, Tribal, Capita -- so absolutely nothing new there (if we decide to do it). We'll choose the service provider we think can deliver the best education for the children at the school, whether a commercial company or a charity.We couldn't legally open the school in premises which don't meet the "legs and regs", as they're described in the Department. There is no programme called Building for Schools.Money saved from discontinuing the Building Schools for the Future programme will not be diverted to Free Schools.The New Schools Network is a non-partisan charity. It includes two senior advisers to Tony Blair among its advisors. (See here http://www.newschoolsnetwork.org/about-us/team)Iain, you've created a straw man to rage against. If everything you believe is true of the West London Free School was true I would be opposed to it too. But it isn't. Please take the trouble to inform yourself of the facts before weighing in again.

Toby Young ● 5914d

I complete agree with Maire. Regardless of Steve Pound's merits as a local MP, he ought not to stoop to lying in order to make the case against the West London Free School. In his most recent column in the Ealing Gazette he wrote:Brentside High School loses out so that some pushy parents can set up a bijou academy free of any sane inclusive admissions policy and teaching what they will to the little darlings who they believe will suffer irredeemable damage if they have to study with the ordinary kids who go to what are actually some of the best state schools in London.As I've pointed out here on numerous occasions, the WLFS will be a non-selective school committed to servicing the entire community. That is to say, our admissions policy will be fully inclusive. The only way it will end up as a middle class school is if non-middle class people don't apply and that will only happen if people like Steve Pound succeed in spreading the lie that the school isn't intended for them. To campaign against the school is one thing. But to invent things about it in order to discourage people from non-middle class backgrounds applying is wrong, particularly when it is precisely those children who stand to benefit most from the rigorous, academic education on offer.Then there's the second lie – that the reason we're setting it up is because we think our own children will "suffer irredeemable damage if they have to study with the ordinary kids". Nothing could be further from the truth. Indeed, we regard our children as "ordinary kids" and we want as many other "ordinary kids" as possible to come to the school. It is not us who are snobs, but our critics who are inverted snobs, assuming that the only possible motive a group of middle class parents and teachers who want to set up a Free School could have is snobbery. And this, in spite of being almost exclusively middle class themselves.Our reason for wanting to start the school is because we want parents who cannot afford to go private or move to a different catchment area or who aren't of the right particular religious faith to have access to a classical liberal education. Characterising that sort of education as "middle class" and trying to persuade non-middle class parents that it's not appropriate for their children will just perpetuate the rigid class divide that already exists, ensuring that most local children don't have access to an opportunity that could transform their lives.

Toby Young ● 5911d

Sorry Jean. There are so many criticisms to reply to it sometimes gets a bit overwhelming. I hope you will give me credit for attempting to answer at least some of the points people have raised in this forum.You essentially made two arguments. First, that we don't need another secondary school in Ealing. The existing schools were good enough for your children. Why aren't they good enough for mine? Second, how can a group of amateurs expect to do a better job than the local authority?Taking the second point first, we don't intend to manage the school ourselves. Rather, we'll subcontract the day-to-day operation of the school to an education provider with a successful track record of running schools. Together, we'll hire an experienced head and a senior leadership team. My role and the role of other people involved in setting up the school will be to sit on the Board of Governors. We'll be no more or less qualified than most school governors. Bear in mind that the Steering Committee now includes several experienced teachers.On the first point, the simple answer is that we're going to need some new schools in Ealing given the current population boom. Ealing Council recognises this which is why it planned to provide an additional 3,200 places – and that would only accommodate the anticipated demand up until 2018. After that, we'd need more places. Now that the BSF programme has been wound up, those plans have had to be shelved. Whatever your views about the pros and cons of winding up that programme, the fact remains that the need for more places is now more urgent than ever. Without some additional secondary school places, there are going to be some 10 and 11-year-olds in the borough with nowhere to go.Now your view might be that if we need another school in Ealing -- or, more likely, another two schools -- then the local authority should be the body to set them up. But why? Yes, the local authority has made a decent fist of running the borough's secondary schools and the average level of attainment in the borough at Key Stage 4 is above national average. Four of the schools have been deemed "outstanding" by Ofsted. But that isn't a compelling reason to insist that the local authority should have a complete monopoly over taxpayer-funded education in the borough (with the exception of the West London Academy). The fact that the status quo isn't awful doesn't mean it can't be improved. Why not give an independent group an opportunity to set up a school that's markedly different to the local authority controlled schools? Even if we don't improve on the borough's average level of attainment – and I believe we will – we will still succeed in providing local parents with more choice. It really isn't a case of not thinking the existing schools are good enough, though some of them plainly aren't. Just wanting something a little bit different.At worst, Free Schools will be a worthwhile experiment. They may not succeed in raising the average level of attainment in England, but then again they may. To assume that the system we have at the moment is the best we can hope for and that any departure from it will automatically mean a lowering of attainment is unduly pessimistic. Indeed, it's an attitude that, not so long ago, would have been categorised as "conservative". One of the ironies of the Free Schools debate is that Conservatives, like me, are criticised for being naive optimists, whereas Labour supporters, who one would have expected to be in favour of new energy and ideas in education, have become the reactionaries, clinging to the status quo and exploiting ignorance and fear in an attempt to preserve it.I hope this satisfies you Jean. But please do respond if I haven't adequately addressed your arguments.

Toby Young ● 5911d