Forum Topic

Saint Dunstans Avenue greens up for auction

Allsop are planning to auction the two greens on Saint Dunstans Avenue on February 16, lot 160. see below: auctions home commercial auctions residential auctions Irish auctions contact us allsop siteresidential homecurrent auction  Online Catalogue  Property Search  Guide Prices  Sold Prior & Withdrawn  Catalogue Request  Special Conditionsof Sale  EPC's  Legal Documents  Addendum  Venue  Remote Biddingpast auctionsfuture auctionsLot 160 16th February 2012 AuctionGuide Price awaiting London W3Ornamental GardensSt Dunstons AvenueActonW3 6QLTwo Freehold Sites comprising Ornamental Gardens and extending to Approximately 0.523 Hectares (1.292 Acres) in Totalto be offered without reserveTenureFreehold.LocationThe properties are both located on the west side of St Dunstons Avenue close to its junctions with St Dunstons Gardens and Friars Way. Local shops are available in Acton and both Acton Central Overground and East Acton Underground (Central Line) stations are also within reach.DescriptionThe property comprises a parcel of two triangular shaped broadly level sites extending to approximately 0.523 hectares (1.292 acres) in total. The property is arranged to provide landscaped ornamental gardens which are maintained by the council.AccommodationThe property extends to approximately 0.523 Hectares (0.192 Acres)Seller's SolicitorMessrs Olswang LLP (Ref: CV). Tel:             0207 067 3000       Fax: 0207 067 3999.VacantTerms of UseView Bigger MapFurther InformationLocation PlanBigger PictureDownloadsParticulars of Sale.pdfSpecial Conditions of Sale.pdfLegal DocumentsGet a CopyContactVendor's SolicitorEmail to a friend© 2011 Allsop LLP. All rights reserved.  Privacy Policy | Legal

riejet oliver ● 5337d52 Comments

Thank you Victor.  You are an Ealing Treasure.  That's good news.  What about the 3rd pocket green, one further north of these two, in Friary Road please?

Angela White ● 4168d

Gerald Moran, former Conveyancer for the Goldsmith's Acton Estate, explained at the Public UDP Inquiry some years back that these two Greens are under a duty of the Council under the Open Spaces Act 1906, even though they are privately owned.  As Public Open Spaces, they cannot be developed or commercialised into a Day Nursery and so on!Gerald Moran lives in the road and neighbours know him. Gerald (Hunters, Lincoln's Inn) is the leading covenant solicitor in the country with over 40 years property law experience and he often assists residents on cases in which we have first carried out voluntary research and that are referred to him for possible further action or definitive advice.

Victor Mishiku ● 4168d

There are private dog walking fields where dog owners book the space and pay an hourly rate, the top green which is really a local dog toilet could provide an income by being a dog walking field.If we get enough residents interested the individual cost of purchasing the greens could be reasonable.It would be so nice to be free of the anxiety that comes with worrying about these fields being developed.

Kim Rugg ● 4168d

Gosh this thread went crazy. I haven't read it all so apologies.I live opposite the smaller green and have often floated the idea of creating a neighbourhood group, which we now have, to purchase these gardens and to have them as private gardens for our neighbourhood. A lot of people were open to the idea. My vision would be to open up the larger garden for the children in our community to have a large play area where they can play safe, this would involve making them unusable to dog owners by modifying the fence, A yearly membership fee, moderate, would cover maintenance and gardening.This could become a great community asset for street parties but also a safe place for our children to play. It would also protect them from developers.

Kim Rugg ● 4168d

Digging up an old thread so that you good people might be able to throw some light on my question:  does anyone know who owns the piece of triangle open space/green in Friary Road please?  I believe it's called Friars Green.  If not, how would I go about finding out?The two other triangles of green are privately owned - I just wondered if this green was too or is it Council?  Thanks.

Angela White ● 4168d

One of our members wanted to buy one of these spaces to do just that.

michael wale ● 5318d

I'd love to see one of these greens have a small allotment area for local kiddies and their families but, of course, that's absolutely ludicrous Angela as it would be:a) vandalisedb) robbedc) poo'ed on by doggiesOh well.

Angela White ● 5318d

Yes, "without reserve" means no minimum price and so presumably means the current owner wanted to offload the two triangular gardens regardless of price.The auctioneer's website says they sold for £11,000.  So hopefully that implies no development potential.  I think someone mentioned that the buyer originally paid £25,000 so that was not a very good investment.http://www.auction.co.uk/residential/LotDetails.asp?A=761&MP=84&ID=761000165&S=L&O=A

Michael Gardner ● 5318d

Doesn't "without reserve" just mean no minimum price? Does that tell us anything?

Sara Nathan ● 5318d

Another update, auction site now shows lot 225, Shaa Rd sub station sold for £3k. Sarah, contrary to an earlier post I am fairly sure the gardens (the two triangles of land) were offered without reserve.....

Iain Muir ● 5318d

The gardens was less than predicted wasn't it?Is this the green patch at St Dunstans? You do wonder what the new owner thinks they can do when th council/councillors seem so sure they are unuseable

Sara Nathan ● 5318d

Auction Update: Lot 69, the substation next to the Goldsmiths Arms is now showing as sold for £48k. Lot 160, the gardens, for £11k, Lot 161, the Perryn Rd sub station, £10k and Lot 225, Shaa Rd sub station is currently showing not sold. I am surprised that the gardens sold, how will the owner get any income from the land? Still what do I know......

Iain Muir ● 5319d

Yes, I went to the auction. Over 1,000 property people in a packed ballroom. Bidding for the allotments opened at a very quiet £20,000 and for a moment it looked as if that was what they would go for. Then it just took off in a bidding war. They must know something we don't. Have palms been greased? Everything we have found on paper shows they have no access, no planning. Did not stay for the sale of the other pieces of land because it took two hours to get to the allotments at Lot 46! Please inform all your councillors and planning officials.

michael wale ● 5319d

According to the live results from the auction Lot 46 (the Alotments) sold for £155k, Lot 69 (sub station next to Goldsmiths Pub) is listed as 'available' so currently Not Sold. I will add the results for the other lots later today when they are available.

Iain Muir ● 5319d

No it can't.See earlier par to fthread.Why not go to the Ward Forum at St Mary's Church Hall tomorrow evening and confirm that with our councillors

Sara Nathan ● 5321d

I have lived in St Dunstans Avenue for over 40 years my house is located looking out to the green.  I am concerned that this park maybe converted into a housing estate, block of flats etc, can this be done by whoever buys the parks, how can we stop this from being developed.  The park is used by many of the residents and is a source of wildlife and should be conserved and protected.

Caroline Cheatley ● 5321d

So day after ward forum not before!Michael, if the allotments are sold, do any rights to turf the current allotment tenants come up?Or is it like St Dunstans green - not much of an asset really?

Sara Nathan ● 5321d

My apologies, I gave the wrong date in my post above. The auction is indeed the 16th!

Iain Muir ● 5321d

Lot 46 16th February 2012 AuctionGuide Price £25,000+Result Available Back view addendumLondon W3Allotment GardensEast Churchfield RoadActonW3 7LLA Freehold Site of Allotment Gardens extending to Approximately 0.217 Hectares (0.536 Acres) subject to a TenancyTenureFreehold.LocationThe property is located to the north-west side of Goldsmiths Close, to the west of its junction with East Acton Lane. Local shops and amenities can be found in East Acton.DescriptionThe property comprises a roughly rectangular broadly level site comprising allotment gardens. The property extends to approximately 0.217 hectares (0.536 acres) and is accessed via Goldsmith Close. NB: Rights of access are reserved by a transfer dated 22nd June 2010.AccommodationThe property extends to approximately 0.217 Hectares (0.536 Acres)TenancyThe property is subject to a Tenancy.Seller's SolicitorMessrs Olswang LLP (Ref: CV).Tel: 0207 067 3000 Fax: 0207 067 3999.Lot 69 16th February 2012 AuctionGuide Price £5,000+Result Available Back view addendumLondon W3Electricity Sub-Station at East Acton LaneActonW3 7ERA Freehold Site extending to Approximately 0.086 Hectares (0.213 Acres) Part Occupied by an Electricity Sub Station subject to a Lease to Southern Electric. The Site may afford Potential for Redevelopment subject to obtaining all necessary consentsTenureFreehold.LocationThe property is accessed via a surfaced road way leading off the north side of East Acton Lane immediately to the east of the Goldsmiths Arms public house. Local shops and amenities can be found in Acton town centre. Acton Central Overground and East Acton Underground (Central Line) stations are close by as is Western Avenue (A40).DescriptionThe property comprises an irregular shaped site extending to approximately 0.086 hectares (0.213 acres). The property is part occupied by an electricity sub-station. The site may afford potential for redevelopment subject to all necessary consents being obtained.AccommodationSite area approximately 0.086 Hectares (0.213 Acres)TenancyThe property is subject to a Lease in favour of Southern Electric Distribution plc for a term expiring 24th December 2026 (thus having aproximately 15 years unexpired) at a current rent of £1 per annum.Seller's SolicitorMessrs Olswang LLP (Ref: CV).Tel: 0207 067 3000 Fax: 0207 067 3999.Current Rent Reserved £500 per annum (equivalent)

Nicola Howard ● 5322d

yes Goldsmith Allotments up for auction feb 16th and plotholders not very happy about it.

kathy kennelly ● 5322d

Still worth going to the Ward forum - conveniently on Wednesday and demonstrating tothe councillors that people round here do care.Plus there's the allotments behind the almshouses - I'm not sure the same is true of then and allotment tenants are certainly worried.

Sara Nathan ● 5322d

But what about the allotment site behind what was the almshouses in Churchfield Road being put up for auction without us, the Acton Gardening Assoc, being told. Guide price is £25,000. We would like the auction delayed so we could possibly find a source of money ie a charity. Shaa Road Residents Assoc want to buy it. they are wealthy. But we have looked after, and spent over £4,000 of our precious funds on this site.

michael wale ● 5322d

The Legal pack probably gives more info, unfortunately Alsops charge for downloads so I have not done so.......The auction is tomorrow (Tues) Results will be available on line a day or so later. I forecast 'not sold'!

Iain Muir ● 5322d

Patricia Walker, Cllr for Acton Central, has written to me to say our Councillors are across this matter.

Angela White ● 5322d

In addition to Vlod's accurate information, the Council's Leisure Services department have told David Millican (Conservative Group Leader) that Acton Borough Council entered into this agreement in 1914 to maintain the land in exchange for public access. It is likely that the land is therefore designated as a public open space and that any development would require a change of designation/use. Council officers have been requested to monitor this situation.

Alex Evans ● 5322d

Michael, I suggest you contact Victor Mishiku who can point you in the right direction (you can PM Victor through this forum).

Vlod Barchuk ● 5329d

Who is the property lawyer. We too could do with advice on our allotment site behind the almshouses that have been puit up for auction by Golden Properties without even informing us. we are the Acton Gardening Association

Michael Wale ● 5329d

I’ve been copied into some correspondence on this. Apparently, in 1914 the then Acton Borough Council took over the care, management and control of the two gardens (using powers under the Open Spaces Act 1906, don’t yer know). The Council retains these rights, so ownership of the sites confers no practical benefit. There’s a property lawyer living in the area who’s been in touch with the owners about this sale, suggesting they need the Council’s permission even to put up the sale notices! It sounds as if anyone who buys these gardens with a view to putting up any sort of building (or even trying to stop public access) is going to run into a legal quagmire. Caveat emptor!

Vlod Barchuk ● 5332d

Acton Gardening Association runs the allotments at the back of what were the almshouses. We found out purely by accident that they were to be auctioned and that the auctioneers had put a guide price of £25,000 on them. We do not have that sort of money. The site has no public value. It all goes back to the irresponsibility of the Goldsmiths walking out on their community role in Acton.as for the 'squares' one of our responsible members would like to buy it to grow flowers and community veg etc.So we hope nobody bids for anything.

Michael Wale ● 5332d

Errrrr ....ignore that last post.  The reply I had was an old reply about something else.  Not sure what's happening with my filing system!

Angela White ● 5332d

Already had a reply from one of our Councillors, hot off the mark.

Angela White ● 5332d

I live nearby the greens and with buildings up going and squeezed in left, right and centre, why not?  We have a house opposite that has been given the go-ahead to become two houses instead of one (despite my arguments against it) and we have another being squeezed in at the back of us which is actually a garage and a bit of land behind it (and has been used as a "factory" over the past year).The Councillors may not be able to do anything but one of them lives opposite the green and they are serving us, so why not.Planning law?  Not worth the energy I used to type those two words.

Angela White ● 5332d

Why panic?Not sure what councillors can do about it at this stage, 'a willing seller and a willing buyer'. Planning law will prevent inappropriate development....

Iain Muir ● 5332d

I'm trying to suppress the mounting panic reading this thread.  Similar thing did happen around a decade ago and I can't remember what happened but I thought a bunch of residents bought one of the greens??  I've emailed our Acton Central Councillors to ask for help in this one. 

Angela White ● 5332d

If it's the same firm selling that bought the almshouses, they were registered in the Cayman Islands. There are 5 lots of interest:46 - Allotment Gdns, accessed via Goldsmiths Close, Guide £25k69 - Part occupied by Electrical Substation, next to Goldsmiths Arms, 'Development potential, subject to consents...' Guide £5k160 - 'Ornamental Gardens...maintained by LBE' No Reserve Price161 - Part occupied by Electrical Substation, located on the east side of Perryn Road close to its junction with East Churchfield, Guide £5k225 - Electrical Substation, located on the west side of East Acton Lane between its junctions with Shaa Road and East Churchfield Road, No reserve price.You can view the catalogue here: http://www.auction.co.uk/residential/onlineCatalogue.aspIt is not unusual for pieces of land with no apparent value to be sold at auction. Dealers will buy them as long term investments and might take a chance with planning. Sub stations can be relocated, but at considerable cost.....

Iain Muir ● 5333d

The council do maintain these greens regularly so surely they must own them. Golden Property Holdings own my freehold - they are the most useless, disinterested, hopeless company I've ever dealt with.  If they are the owners they need to be kept a careful eye on.  Don't believe a word they say ....

Sarah Harris ● 5333d

I don't think they are.THere seem to be some restrictions on useI can't go to the Ward Forum on the 15th February but why don't people go to that and ask the councillors directly?

Sara Nathan ● 5333d

At just over an acre in size, the possibilites are endless. Well, almost.

Ellie Rose ● 5336d

Really? are those greens privately owned? I wondr what could be put there - offices, shops, housing?Carl

Carl Tamboli ● 5336d

I also remember the land on St. Dunstans Avenue being up for sale a few years back.  I thought someone had applied for planning permission to erect a house and the residents, with the help of a neighbouring lawyer, fought against this - and won.  I tried to 'google' information without luck but came across the following, which although nothing to do with the sale of this land, made interesting readingwww.stdunstanschurch.org.uk/history.html

Maria Pettit ● 5336d

Didnt know the allotments were up for sale. Planning permission was refused on these not so long ago when the almshouses developer wanted them as hard standing for his construction vehicles. Angie Bray MP helped the campaign I seem to recall,.

Sara Nathan ● 5336d

I must correct my entry of £25000 .Land site W3 £25000 is in fact the Allotment Gardens at rear of the Old Alms houses in East Churchfield Road.St Dunstans Greens are awaiting advice on price.I agree the greens have no value in fact they would cost money on upkeep.

John McNamara ● 5336d

10 years ago would have been roughly when Goldsmiths sold their freeholds, if a councillor intervened it would not have been a council sale. I cannot imagine any value for these greens, they would not get planning (well they might in LBHF!)So they are 'amenity land' with an annual maintenance cost and no potential income stream.....I suspect £25k is a hopeful guess by the auction house. In another life I knew on old Armenian guy, probably long dead who worked for the council as a gardener there. He was really interesting and full of stories about Armenian history/repression. I think his name was George, anyone remember him?

Iain Muir ● 5336d

Price guide £25,000+ so no planning permission.

John McNamara ● 5337d

Price guide £25,000+ So no planning permission.

John McNamara ● 5337d

Only ten years ago?I have no recollection of this at all and have been mildly intersted in these things for just over ten years.Councillor Abdullah lives right on one of the greens - surely he will have an opinion.

Sara Nathan ● 5337d

Around 10 years ago, maybe even a bit longer, a similar thing happened and what I seem to remember is that the council put one of the greens up for sale, all residents were up in arms and a very friendly solicitor intervened and made sure that it was stopped as it is a designated green area as I recall. None of us want block of flats on the greens and am just very fed up with having to start the whole process again. Does anyone living in the area still have the paperwork handy ?

riejet oliver ● 5337d

The Goldsmith Co.sold all their freeholds including the greens  to the Golden Property Co.(an off-shore company).I assume they want to get rid of them.The council maintains the greens so they must charge and the freeholder must pay for the upkeep.But who really owns the greens?

John McNamara ● 5337d

If you download the 'Special conditions of sale', this gives the owners/landlords.The substations seem to be owned by The Goldsmiths. City Of London.......Not sure who the Golden Property Holdings are.....States that they are the sellers.Is no piece of land sacred anymore ??

Ellie Rose ● 5337d

Hubby seems to think they are council owned...He has seen the council contracters maintaining them........

Ellie Rose ● 5337d

These greens have no value without planning permission.Who now owns them?.

John McNamara ● 5337d

I didn't know they were privately owned. How odd.

Sara Nathan ● 5337d