Forum Topic

Charing Cross, Ealing and Hammersmith hospitals to cease operating

Further to go for emergency treatment.  These closures would mean being taken to a hospital where they don't know your medical history.  The patient would have to spend time explaining symptoms and medication, probably to some F1 (junior doctor,) who would have to get a second opinion and still would be clueless.  If say a patient under Charing Cross is taken to CXH, the doctors can access records.  If they are taken to Chelsea and Westminster, it is time wasted.  Also the extra journey times could be fatal, let alone the cost of getting home after treatment.  Pensioners just cannot afford the financial costs involved, (around £20 from C&W to Acton.)Why do I feel that we are being subjected to a death sentence by the closure of A&Es.  Let's hope that the consultation is a resounding NO to the closures.  Why should a bunch of bureaucrats decide our health in an emergency and/or, who may live or die?  We have an ageing population in the area and, health issues go with the territory, so is it too much to be treated where one is known?If the NHS needs to save money, get rid of the FAT CATS who just sit in an office, wasting money and, who are not worth their salary's.  Of course, the government could add a penny or two on income tax, or put the price of fags up again.If at a walk-in A&E, if the waiting time is three or four hours, how much longer would a person have to wait, with the extra volume of people wanting to be seen.....six hours plus?

Nicola Howard ● 5197d75 Comments

BBC: A&E Unit Closure Plans Published"Health bosses in NW London have put forward plans to close 4 of the 9 A&E departments in the area. They say the changes will save lives and give patients better care but would mean the loss of A&E's at Charing X, Ealing, H/smith, and Central Middlesex hospitals. Critics of the plan claim patients will have to travel further for treatment. The proposals will be considered for approval on Monday (today)."I think I am right in saying Central Middlesex is the A&E at Park Royal; and Hammersmith is in East Acton, and Charing X is in Hammersmith/Fulham, and Ealing is in West Ealing/Southall moreorless. (They should really be named more clearly..)BUT can someone tell me where the other 5 A&E departments are in NW London? I can't find them on the NHS site or Googlemaps.  I guess Harrow is one, but I don't consider Twickenham or Paddington to be NW. Central Middlesex (Park Royal) is virtually a brand new building, with parking.... (no parking at Paddington).What are our MP's and Councillors saying / doing about this?

S Bradford ● 5196d

Per usual, there can't really be any reasoned debate on these proposals due to the overwhelmingly inflammatory nature of the comments that are typically made.There are a couple of things to take into account when considering these proposals:1. Firstly we need to differentiate between emergency care and urgent care. The two are quite different and require different skillsets and resource levels.2. We also need to recognise the tremendous innovation that has taken place in the ambulance service - patients in critical condition can now be stabilised and transferred to specialist centres in ways that simply weren't possible 40 years ago when much of the NHS infrastructure was developed. The recent change to stroke care in London (all potential cases now go by ambulance, are treated on route and get taken to specialist centres), has resulted in less cost, more lives saved, and critically, more patients treated in time to avoid the need for major rehabilitation.3. Having considered the evidence that clinical outcomes won't be compromised by patients travelling longer distances, we can then look at cost. Too much of the NHS budget is tied up maintaining huge buildings in secondary care - this needs to be released to fund urgent improvements in primary care that would in many cases reduce the burden on hospitals in the first place e.g. managing patients with chronic conditions more intensively in community settings and thus avoiding expensive unscheduled admissions through A&E. To put this into perspective, centralising some elements of A&E has the potential to release tens of millions in annual funding, all of which will be retained in Primary care.4. The issue of records is a red herring - in genuine emergency cases, it's very often the case that decisions are made with very little reference to records. Even at Ealing Hospital, frequent attendees of A&E benefit little from the proximity to local GPs since their records aren't available to the hospital doctors or vice versa.5. It's quite wearing to constantly read about "fat cats" by people who typically have no understanding of the level of complexity that managing an organisation of 5000+ staff brings with it. In the case of Ealing, many of their medical staff earn substantially more than the current CEO (two to three times more in fact). Tie that together with the 5.7% reduction in the number of NHS Managers over the last year and the whole argument is bogus, not least as the NHS has far fewer managers than other organisations of similar size / complexity.6. Finally, let's deal with travel time. Most of the country have to travel more than 15 minutes to get to A&E and a comparison of health outcomes for both emergency medicine and urgent care shows there that the link between distance / time and outcomes is exaggerated, often to suit the vested interests of the loudest voices. We need to grow up a bit and really decide whether we want short journey times and higher death rates, or longer journey times and lower death rates as that's really the choice on offer - concentrating specialist skillsets, diagnostics and infrastructure on the scale that A&E demands is simply not feasible in the current district general hospital model. Personally I'm more interested in staying alive if I'm ever unfortunate enough to need emergency treatment and to that end I strongly support the proposals.

Chris Martin ● 5196d

BUT can someone tell me where the other 5 A&E departments are in NW London?1...Chelsea & Westminster.2...West Middlesex3...Northwick Park4...St Mary's Paddington5...??

Ellie Rose ● 5196d

When will there be someone to look after the wellbeing of the patient instead of all these different bits that are completely disjointed and uncoordinated and incapable of communicating correctly and completely with one another?I suppose the reason for not bothering about the notes is because nobody seems to be able to understand anybody else's?  Perhaps because they don't/can't/won't read.When those people who do escape back out again don't seem to be able to be provided with correct discharge notes and drug lists (just had another one to add to our list) why try and bring more people into the equation?We need the local clinics first.

Philippa Bond ● 5196d

I took a closer look at the NHS website to identify our closest A&E’s, those that have parking, and % patients recommending each hospital based on their experience. I looked at the ten closest (including the Western Eye Hospital – which I am guessing is a specialised A&E), and found:- The four A&E’s earmarked for closure are also the ones closest to Acton. - 3 out of 4 of the hospitals with A&E’s earmarked for closure have the best performing percentage of patients recommending across the ten hospitals (Hammersmith 87%, Central Middlesex 78% and Charing X 76%; Ealing being the exception at 39%).- Of the six not earmarked for closure: two have no parking.That ALL the closest hospitals, and the hospitals with the ‘best performing percentage of patients recommending’, are earmarked for closure, doesn’t seem to make sense.I don’t know enough to comment about A&E specialism’s at each place, but I think there is a specialist Children’s A&E at Hammersmith, and I don’t know if this is included in the closure plans.For anyone who’s interested, below is some of the detail of the ten closest A&E hospitals taken from the NHS site; Hospital name, location, distance from central Acton, parking, A&E status, and patients recommending:1)Central Middlesex, Park Royal, 1.3 miles, Parking, A&E may close, 14/18 (78%) 2)Hammersmith, East Acton, 1.4 miles, Parking, A&E may close, 20/23 (87%)3)Charing X, Fulham Palace Road, 2.7 miles, Parking, A&E may close, 26/34 (76%)4)Ealing, Southall, 3.4 miles, Parking, A&E may close, 12/31 (39%)5)West Middlesex University Hospital, Twickenham, 3.7 miles, Parking, A&E, 32/45 (71%)6)St Mary’s, Paddington, 4.1 miles, NO parking, A&E, 21/32 (66%)7)Chelsea & Westminster, Fulham Road, 4.2 miles, Parking, A&E, 10/21 (48%)8)Western Eye Hospital, Marylebone Road, 4.9 miles, NO Parking, A&E, 14/25 (56%)9)Northwick Park, Harrow, 4.9 miles, Parking, A&E, 32/58 (55%)10) Royal Free, Pond Road NW3, 5.2 miles, Parking, A&E, 82/108 (76%)

S Bradford ● 5196d

The ones earmarked for closure do seem to be very clustered. That's not logical, surely.

Susan Kelly ● 5196d

With the population in Acton expanding rapidly (My local Health Centre was bulging at the seams today with mothers and babies) surely we need to take this into account before closing all the A&E hospitals which are closet to Acton?With more and more people moving to Acton the it does not make sense to consider closing any part of local hospitals, where do they expect the local population to go in an emergency?My husband and I have had occasion to use the A&E service on a number of occasions and certainly would not wish to travel further afield to Northwick Park for instance. A patient with heart problems does need urgent attention not a longer journey to an unfamiliar hospital.Perhaps if we had fewer 'Health Tourists' coming here for free NHS care there would be no need to close A&E Hospitals with the amount of money that could be saved.

Jean F Fernandez ● 5196d

"A patient with heart problems does need urgent attention not a longer journey to an unfamiliar hospital."A patient with a cardiac emergency is most likely to be picked up by ambulance and treated en-route - which makes the journey distance / time less of an issue - what's more important is the quality of the care received at the other end where an accurate diagnosis is often only achieved with advanced diagnostics and expert staff. It's simply not possible to maintain the numbers of staff / equipment 24/7 at locations all over London.

Chris Martin ● 5196d

If a patient is admitted to a hospital in an unfamiliar location then surely visiting that patient would surely be more problematic for relatives?For those of us who rely on public transport I can forsee many problems if this daft idea goes ahead.

Jean F Fernandez ● 5196d

But I thought the NHS was safe in DC's hands.

George Knox ● 5196d

ChrisYou seem to have an agenda contrary to the needs of the many.  Do you have a medical qualification or, one of those hell bent on closure?With no local A&E near Acton, there are going to be serious problems for those with LIFE THREATENING complaints.In my case I cannot use public transport, therefore, distance is problematic.

Nicola Howard ● 5196d

George.The NHS was a Labour invention.  Every Tory government has tried to destroy it since.  Vote Monster Raving Looney!

Nicola Howard ● 5196d

A thread on the chiswick forum suggests consultation of 3 options is happening in July. From what I can see these 3 options do not include saving Hammersmith or Central Middlesex A&E's. Doesn't make any sense given apparently positive patient feedback.I repeat: what are our MP's and Councillors saying/doing?

S Bradford ● 5196d

The public consultation starts on 2nd July and, lasts for fourteen weeks.  I just wonder how many people will be consulted......all, or just a select few?How about doctors going on strike over the closures, a more worthwhile cause, than pensions!I can recall when the government wanted to close Charing Cross during the early 1980s, the picket lines were out in force, doctors, nurses, porters etc,I repeat: what are our MP's and Councillors saying/doing?Probably nothing! Julian Bell (Ealing council) is positive, but Dr Michael Anderson is negative.  Go to BBC i-Player 6pm news, Monday 25 June, the London part that starts at 6.30pm.

Nicola Howard ● 5196d

London A&E units closure plan publishedBy Karl Mercer BBC London, Health CorrespondentCharing Cross Hospital Four north-west London hospitals could lose their accident and emergency departmentsContinue reading the main story Related Stories    Four A&E departments face closure    Trust may shut maternity and A&E    Is the NHS set for an autumn of discontent?Health bosses in north-west London have put forward plans to close four of the nine accident and emergency departments in the area.They say the changes will save lives and give patients better care but it would mean the loss of A&Es at Charing Cross, Ealing, Hammersmith and Central Middlesex hospitals.Critics of the plan claim patients will have to travel further for treatment.The proposal will be considered for approval on Monday.Under the plans new "super" units will be set up at other hospitals in the area, with more consultants and bigger teams working in shifts 24 hours a day.The programme called "Shaping a Healthier Future" was launched at the end of last year, with the NHS in north-west London saying it needed to save around £1bn over the next three years, as well as improve standards.The NHS has now published its preferred option, ahead of a consultation.'Centres of excellence'The plan means the Chelsea and Westminster would remain as a major hospital, keeping its A&E.Continue reading the main story “Start Quote    More care should be delivered closer to home”Anne Rainsberry NHS NW LondonSt Mary's in Paddington would be the same, as would Northwick Park, the West Middlesex and Hillingdon.Charing Cross and Ealing hospitals would become local hospitals, with urgent care centres.The Central Middlesex Hospital would become a centre for planned or elective operations.Hammersmith would become a specialist centre.Anne Rainsberry, chief executive for NHS NW London, said: "This isn't about cutting corners or getting away with the bare minimum. We want to change the way we deliver care so that outcomes are improved."More care should be delivered closer to home and, by also centralising some specialist hospital-based services, the NHS can ensure that people can benefit from receiving treatment at centres of best practice and excellence."Ealing and Hammersmith & Fulham Councils have said they will fight the proposals, which go out to public consultation at the start of July.Mark Loveday, Conservative councillor on Hammersmith & Fulham Council, said of the threat to Charing Cross Hospital: "This is an enormous teaching hospital with a 200-year history. You can't make the Charing Cross Hospital into a local hospital. It's absurd. People won't put up with it."The plans will go to the Joint Committee of Primary Care Trusts (PCT) on Monday for approval, before a public consultation that will run from July to October, with a decision on the proposed changes being made early in 2013.

Nicola Howard ● 5196d

I've seen proper teamwork in action at Charing Cross A&E.

Philippa Bond ● 5196d

This isn't just about A&E closures is it if, as the BBC report says, The Central Middlesex Hospital would become a centre for planned or elective operations and Hammersmith would become a specialist centre (for what I wonder?).What happens to all the patients who have been under the care of the hospital for years - if they don't fall into the correct category for that hospital anymore? Notes will have to be transfered, with the risk of them going missing, new consultants seen and the continuity of care will be lost.What happens to the staff who are no longer needed? More unemployment. If the hospital trusts want to save money, they should cut the excessive spending on non-essentials and concentrate on what a hospital is really for - making sick and injured people well again. Managers are paid vast amounts of money for sitting in offices pen-pushing. Cut those jobs, not nurses, physios etc, and save enough money to fund A&E.The population is growing, so no matter how advanced medical technology has become or how much better trained our ambulance staff are now, there is an even greater need for A&E. More people means more potential accidents and medical/surgical emergencies.

Amanda Knights ● 5195d

During the past few years my husband was taken to A and E at Hammersmith and Charing Cross, depending on which symptoms he had.  Both hospitals have different specialities.  On occasions he needed admitting, so was in the correct hospital for the condition he was suffering from.  He was therefore able to be admitted without problems.  Under the new proposed scheme, it is quite likely that a patient would have to be transferred from the A and E dept to whichever hospital dealt with the condition the patient was suffering from, therefore causing further delays, travel,probably by ambulance, more administration etc.  The days when every hospital dealt with every condition are long since gone - with more specialisation there are extra difficulties.  And this is apart from the fact that with the ever expanding population in Acton we need more, not less, medical services.

Nina Battleday ● 5195d

I believe Hammersmith Hospital is to become a specialist 'Heart' centre...

Ellie Rose ● 5195d

I do agree with Christ Martin's point about ambulancepersons being much more highly trained now and appreciate that this level of care means that a lot of the worek that would have started at hospital is done before leaving for hospital.HOWEVER the ambulance still has to reach you in the first place.  So what if it takes even longer to get to you? It took 11 minutes when I last dialled 999 (in April) and it seemed a very long time.  I forgot to ask them where they had come from.  I had meant to but I was just happy and relieved they had arrived.

Philippa Bond ● 5194d

The last time i called an ambulance it came from Uxbridge! They didn't know the route from Horn Lane to Hammersmith Hospital A&E. Their satnav took them over every sleeping policeman in the area, and then we had to wait 10 minutes for trains to pass at the level crossing by Acton Central. This was 4am, with virtually no traffic!

S Bradford ● 5194d

There will be a Public Meeting tomorrow organised by Andy Slaughter MP to plan the campaign against the closure of both A&E units in Hammersmith. It will be at Rivercourt Methodist Church, King Street, Hammersmith, London, W6 9JT, at 6 - 7:30pm. Nearest Tube is Ravenscourt Park. If you have any questions or suggestions, email SaveHFNHS@andyslaughter.com. Not our MP, but the closures will definitely will affect everyone in Acton.

Clare Gittins ● 5194d

Chris M, just one question to you: Are you in the private healthcare sector, or in any way connected with it?? I think we should be told.

Chris Veasey ● 5194d

That'll be he very same Andy Slaughter MP that wholeheartedly backed the (Labour) party line re widespread Post Office closures when his lot were in misgovernment at Westminster - EXCEPT for the ones in his constituency - and just (quote) 'swatted aside' the pertinent point re his utter hypocrisy when it was put to him by a Gaggette reporter.With form like that - and hence total lack of credibility -  I wouldn't trust him as far as I could throw him on this issue either.Your/our real current local MP Angie Bray is the one to nobble, amd according to what was said at a public meeting on this issue in Ealing Town hall last night, definitely needs nobbling by as many of her constituents as possible to ease her off her current inclination to toe her (Conservative, pro-closure) party line. She was quoted (in her absence) as saying the as she hadn't had many representations from constituents on this issue it currently isn't very high in her list of priorities(!!!).

Chris Veasey ● 5194d

I didn't post that because I support Andy Slaughter. If Angie Bray was organising a similar event, I would post that too. I think this is an important issue - that's all. I think the NHS is in a perilous state and the planned changes are going to cost more billions, only making things worse. But it's difficult to stop the rollercoaster. Now if Angie Bray and Andy Slaughter were to join forces against the closures, that would - just possibly - make people sit up and take notice at least in West London.

Clare Gittins ● 5194d

When contacting Angie, don't forget to give you name, address and, post code.angie.bray.mp@parliament.ukDrive her crazy with protests over the closures.

Nicola Howard ● 5194d

If anyone wants to use this or modify the content if you want to contact Angie BrayFromNameAddress Post CodeDear AngieI strongly object to the proposed closures of Charing Cross and Hammersmith A&E departments.Charing Cross is a major teaching hospital, which serves the people of Acton.The loss of the A&Es would leave  the people of Acton without emergency cover.  Further the extended travelling distance to the Chelsea and Westminster is not two minutes as has been mentioned but, at least 20 minutes.  It should also be realised that Acton has a rapidly growing population and, services are strained within the NHS.Why has Imperial College been targeted in such a harsh manner while the other hospitals have been let off the hook, so to speak?Charing Cross should remain the lifeline for the residents of Acton, with Hammersmith being the back-up or overflow.  The proposals of the PCT  are outrageous and totally unacceptable and, totally ill-conceivedThe NHS is. safe in DCs hands, I don't think so!  Every Tory government has tried to dismember the NHS, even with an attempt to close Charing Cross in the 80s, which failed.  Please resist the proposed closures of these two A&E departments.  How about you and Andy Slaughter getting together and, having a public meeting, say at St Mary's Church Hall, The Mount, Acton?Yours

Nicola Howard ● 5194d

Three points:-Not sure openly slagging off her party is the best way to get her on-side, whatever your/our private thoughts.West London isn't the only area affected, it's across the country, so a tone/ content expressing solidarity rather than beggar-my-neighbour would I suggest be wiser.It's not just the A&E closures, important though they are - as senior health professionals pointed out at last night's meeting, previous experience shows that a hospital's loss of its A&E function inevitably triggers subsequent loss of other functions, ultimately resulting in complete closure.

Chris Veasey ● 5194d

loss of its A&E function inevitably triggers subsequent loss of other functions, ultimately resulting in complete closure.We could then take the case of Central Middlesex.  The A&E closes at 7pm, now it seems with the total loss of that department. The old hospital demolished and a complete rebuild.  If the loss of A&E would lead to complete closure, it was a waste of money rebuilding in the first place.  It would appear that the PCT are extremely short sighted, or are content to leave us Actonians without adequate cover for our needs.  Further, there is no way, I would go to Northwick Park, it's on about the same par as Ealing. (Ealing missed a cancer, but, found at Charing Cross, my feet didn't touch.)

Nicola Howard ● 5194d

You must ask yourself who uses the 'Accident and Emergency' Department of a hospital?Mainly those possibly who are not signed on with a doctor, and therefore probably do not have a National Insurance Number, those who are cold and have no where to go, ditto -drunks.My one experience sitting with a cracked wrist in a full waiting room at the Central Middlesex on a Saturday morning showed absolutely no one with an 'accident and emergency' problem. People came and went when they saw they could not be seen immediately. What kind of service were they expecting I wonder? If you have a minor problem you should be visiting the doctor you have signed on with, not the 'accident and emergency' department of a hospital.  Therefore if the A and E departments of hospitals are not being used for the purpose for which they were intended, it makes sense to close them down.Basic first aid perhaps needs to be put on the cirruculum of all school children - in order to prevent those with minor problems clogging up the National Health Service. If I have a cold I do not go along to see my doctor, I am perfectly able to treat myself.

Dee Cook ● 5193d

You must ask yourself who uses the 'Accident and Emergency' Department of a hospital?Mainly those possibly who are not signed on with a doctor, and therefore probably do not have a National Insurance Number, those who are cold and have no where to go, ditto -drunks.What is hospital security for?  Dossers and homeless should have to pay, for wasting the time of the genuine, who are in need.  Foreign nationals and illegal immigrants should be made to pay up front, or, No NI number, no treatment.If these overseas private payment dodgers, were made to pay up front for their treatment and, not given the chance to do a moonlight flit, the NHS would have the funds to give the indigenous population the service we have come to expect from 1948.  Too many aliens take the NHS for a ride and, it's the born and bred of this country that have to suffer.How much money is taken up by the Drunk Bus and, people who have self inflicted their condition, they should be made to pay for the service of the ambulance crew and, for the treatment (sleep it off) needed in A&E.  If a person can afford to get so drunk, that they need hospital treatment, they can afford to pay.A&E should be for urgent treatment, and life threatening conditions and, therefore remain open.  Closure of the units surrounding the Acton area, is not an option.

Nicola Howard ● 5193d

Dee,  how did you determine if the people sitting around you were urgent cases or not?  I went to A&E 2 weeks ago but would have looked perfectly well to those around me but my condition needed to be urgently checked out and was done so rather efficiently.I think Chris M raised some interesting points in respect of building up more specialised services in certain hospitals which echoes what a Consultant Orthopaedic Surgeon told me a couple of months ago.  I do not want all local A&E's closed but perhaps we don't need them all.I think the argument that "those who have self inflicted their condition should be made to pay" is ridiculous.  Where do you draw the line?  Sorry no treatment you smoked for 40 years goodbye,  sorry you ate too much tough luck good bye,  ah yes you lived a healthy life, ate well and exercised I'm so sorry you are ill we will treat YOU !!.........if someone is a alcoholic they clearly are vunerable and have problems and of course no ones wants them in A&E (or the mount for that matter) but to suggest they should cough up for treatment well the mind boggles.

Jen Morty ● 5193d

Trying to have centres of excellence seems to me to be something that they are constantly trying to do.  Not something new.  I'm sure there were changes happening before the election.The ambulance service is more stretched now because people are being chucked out of hospital when they are not fit and able enough to go home.  There are not enough local facilities and they are not coordinated.  You are told should you fall that you should dial 999.I think it would be interesting to see the criteria that the ambulance service have for answering calls from people who have fallen.

Philippa Bond ● 5193d

If a patient is taken by ambulance to an unfamiliar hospital some distance away from home then surely this is just adding to the traumatic situation for the patient? Surely it is much better for the patient to be taken to the local hospital where he/she has already received treatment and attended as an outpatient.If the patient is admitted for treatment to hospital in another location which is some distance from home it would also be difficult for family members to visit. This could be especially difficult for older members of the population.I agree with earlier comments, it is high time the NHS started checking whether or not someone is entitled to free treatment and not just admit all and sundry.It is hardly surprising that some hospitals are now going into administration! What on earth are the managers doing about this situation?

Jean F Fernandez ● 5193d

http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/save-charing-cross.html i totally disagree of these closures, these are our hospitals for A&E, Urgent etc.  Why should have to close our local hospitals.  I've signed this petition.  Charing Cross saved my life and i depended on A&E to keep me stabilised because of the heart condition i have. Please sign the petition. thanks

Tina Ayres ● 5192d

Jen, I am a trained first aider.  As I said most 'customers', when they did not get seen immediately, and I would suggest to you that someone in the hospital decided that they should not have been there in the first place - and they were put to the back of the queue, just stood up and left the building.  In my opinion if you are able to stand up and walk smartly out of a building you are not an 'accident and emergency' case.  To some a small cut finger is an 'urgent condition' - to me it is not.The time has come for those who pay their National Insurance stamp to receive a service for which they pay, and those who do not pay their NI stamp, should be seeing someone in the private sector.  As happens in other countries in the EU.It is a well known fact that it is cheaper for some to get on an aeroplane when sick and use the National Health Service free of charge, than pay for treatment in their own countries.  Having a baby for instance is one example and if you have HIV. I believe ONE hospital has just written off some £2m pounds worth of debt in this respect and that was just for one year.  Add all that up and you can see how much money is being wasted.Creating healthy lifestyles can be 'engineered' by Governments, as we all know, just put £1 on each bottle of beer.Others more educated than us have tried to deal with those on the Mount, unsuccessfully - both the Church and Social Services - over the past 10 years to my knowledge.  What do you see as the solution to this problem?

Dee Cook ● 5192d

Dee, After reading your last post I was reminded of something I was told by a hospital employee some years ago.  One of the staff went out to Africa on holiday, she visited a little mud hut on her travels but what surprised her was a sign on the wall giving advice 'This is what to do when you arrive in the UK' and this went on to explain how to get treatment and so on! Perhaps the abuse of our hospitality is more widespread than we thought!

Jean F Fernandez ● 5192d

We have a culture now where kids seem to think that the way t celebrate is to get plastered - and certainly for their 18th birthdays.  It seems so sad to have gatherings with your friends that you will probably not remember but that is how it is.I suppose if there were fines parents would just leave their puking offspring in A&E.  I do think these people should be billed - or maybe community service.There will be problems with the ambulance service if we have to go further afield especially if to a hospital with poor accessibility.  We are as we are told an aging population.  Therefore are unlikely to be driving ourself or our partner...  It can be difficult taking somebody who can't walk far anywhere because of the lack of seating and if you have managed to get a wheelchair you will still have accessibility problems.  It takes two to take time off work as one has to find the seating/wheelchair and clinic while the other has to find the parking space.

Philippa Bond ● 5192d

If you book hospital transport nowadays I believe that you do have to give your NHS number.  About time.I'm sure that in other countries they charge visitors to the country something to cover any emergency hospital treatment they need.  Anyone else aware of this?Why can't we move more less serious things out into the community like blood tests at the pharmacy in Hanwell? Or do the blood tests earlier?  People must go an hour early for them making it easier for them to then go home and have breakfast and then go to work.

Philippa Bond ● 5192d

Why do I need to go to Hanwell for a blood test?  My GP practice has a phlebotomist that comes in twice a week.

Nicola Howard ● 5192d

Can you get an appointment easily enough - or is it walk-in?

Philippa Bond ● 5192d

Wednesday and Friday by appointment.

Nicola Howard ● 5192d

Doubt signing a petition or saying NO to the closures on consultation will make any difference. It looks as if the closures will go ahead, regardless, but, we should make our anger felt.A better solution would be to get rid of the useless out of hours doctors who don't speak good English and, come to this country, get off the plane, start work immediately and, who are probably not checked and, are prone to making mistakes.  I once had occasion to call Harmony and, the response I got was, I cant treat you, you're not my patient, call you own doctor in the morning.  All well and good but, I called on a Friday night and, my doctor does not work weekends.  Hence a trip to Charing Cross A&E.What happens when a person has been discharged from hospital after major surgery, then develops complications, that requires urgent attention, say in theatre, do they go to another A&E miles away, different surgeon, no notes/records and, totally distressed.  Another instance with Charing Cross is that they have the largest gender I.D  facility.  What happens if complications arise after surgery, that cant wait?  There is not another hospital locally that can deal with those issues.

Nicola Howard ● 5189d

What on earth is a 'gender I.D facility'?? - do you mean they can tell men from women? - and that less well-endowed hospitals can't?

Chris Veasey ● 5189d

What on earth is a 'gender I.D facility'?? Gender reassignment.  Or are you just naive?

Nicola Howard ● 5189d

Do you mean sex change ops? - in which case why not say so?; and yes I evidently am naive - where I come from we reckon to call a spade a spade, or even a **@?£$*** shovel, rather than pussyfooting around with PC gobbledegook - and is doing such ops on the NHS at public expense really a priority in such troubled times when the public purse and in particular the NHS is strapped for cash?

Chris Veasey ● 5189d

Chris, I enjoyed your post!But perhaps we could get back to the matter in hand... Anyone of any gender, re-assigned or otherwise who feels it's important not to reduce the numbers of accident and emergency departments may want to sign a petition launched on the Ealing Council website. It appears to be supported by councillors from all three political parties and so far has only been signed by an appallingly small number of people:www.ealing.gov.uk/petitionsI have signed as I believe that closing a+e at Ealing Hospital would inevitably affect all other a+e departments in West London. Has anyone been in a local a+e department recently? I don't really want to start thinking about what it would be like if all those patients who currently attend Ealing a+e were dispersed amongst the few hospitals who still have facilities to take them. I'd like a petition against the closures of a+e departments at Charing Cross, Central Middlesex and Hammersmith Hospitals too.

Clare Gittins ● 5189d

I will be making my views known, to my registered GP, who is behind the closures.  Having spoken to people about the closures, they are incensed over any possible closure of Charing Cross A&E, as it is a preferred hospital.Any closures could only mean the loss of jobs, from the tea maker right up to senior consultant.I, for one, am not prepared to go the extra distance for emergency treatment.  Why should Acton be left with no local A&E?I hope the Andy Slaughter is a better MP for Hammersmith, than he was for Acton.  What has Angie Bray done?  Well done the councillors.

Nicola Howard ● 5189d

If you don't want Acton left with no A&E wouldn't it make more sense to campaign for Hammersmith Hopsital which is IN Acton rather than Charing Cross Hospital which is in Hammersmith?!

Jen Morty ● 5187d

The reality is that we wont be left with no hospital but some will close whilst the others become bigger and have more services.  I would say Charing Cross would close before Hammersmith Hospital as the later has more land/space.  In addition there has been much new buidling work at Hammersmith of late.

Jen Morty ● 5187d

But Charing Cross has a larger A&E.  Land space does not come into it, it's  all about services and, quality of treatment.The Royal Brompton has lost it's pediatric heart facility, so now there is more pressure on GOS.  How is this improving services?

Nicola Howard ● 5186d

How can it be right to close hospitals - any hospitals - when the population is expanding in all directions? It looks like someone is trying to save money in the short term, when eventually and inevitably new hospitals will have to be built at huge expense. Maybe I'm pessimistic, but it doesn't look good for the next generation who are going to be working longer to pay for their pensions, student loans etc and a few new hospitals to boot.By the way Jen, Hammersmith Hospital A&E does not accept trauma injuries so Charing Cross is probably our geographically closest hospital for those.

Clare Gittins ● 5186d

Yes I know that the A&E at Hammersmith is smaller than at Charing Cross but the point I was trying to make is that if a hospital closes and another remains open I think Charing X would close before Hammersmith because of the space factor I mentioned.  Just because the A&E is smaller now than at Charing X does not mean it would remain so,  Hammersmith A&E used to be bigger than it currently is.  Departments would be reconfigurated,  presumably.I would be interested to know what the doctors themselves think rather than govt officials,  politicians,  and managers who are penny pinching.  Many Consultants work at several hospitals perhaps it would be more efficient to have them based at 1 hospital,  make that hospital the go to venue for that speciality but I go off topic as this thread is just about A&E.  I felt that the chap (was it Chris M I forget now)  is a doctor and that he raised some interesting points but he got attacked and has not come back to the discussion.Of course it does seem odd to close hospitals as you rightly point out the population will grow.

Jen Morty ● 5186d

Doctors will treat all those patients who end up in front of them irrespective if they have a national insurance number or not.The fraudulent use of the National Health service has to stop - and that problem lies with the administrators of our hospitals.Within this quagmire of administration lies the answer to solving and creating a National Health Service that will pay its way and be efficient.  But are there the managers out there with the Political support to do that?

Dee Cook ● 5185d

Have had a response from Angie Bray, part of her letter is as follows:I have expressed concerns about the future of our local hospitals with Health Secretary, Andrew Lansley, and his Health Minister Simon Burns, but should also point out that the reconfiguration of healthcare in North West London is an entirely a local initiative, led by NHS North West London.In her letter she does say:We are firmly against this as it would be a serious loss for the residents of Ealing and Acton who use them.  In our view, rushing through a last minute, top-down reorganisation of local healthcare before the health reforms kick in would be a serious error.Angie has supplies this link:http://www.healthiernorthwestlondon.nhs.uk/document/shapimg-healthier-future-consultation-document

Nicola Howard ● 5185d

Acton is not in north west London!

Jen Morty ● 5185d

Maybe not Jen but the hospitals concerned come under the N.W. 'trust'

Ellie Rose ● 5185d

Och well we are DOOMED DOOMED!!  If they do not know west from north west! :-)

Jen Morty ● 5185d

Depends on how you split the place up - if into four parts then yes this whole borough is in NW quadrant - if into 6 or 8, then it's West. Really shouldn't get too hung up and decoyed onto such trivial aspects of the matter. IMHO of course.

Chris Veasey ● 5185d

Sorry for my light hearted comment....

Jen Morty ● 5185d

Here are some more links that may be helpful.  You may have to copy and paste into Google.www.northwestlondon.nhs.uk/shapingahealthierfuture/www.healthiernorthwestlondon.nhs.uk/homewww.healthiernorthwestlondon.nhs.uk/three-overarching-principles

Nicola Howard ● 5185d

Bob Crossley ● 5185d

With MPs objecting and, the tone of residents across the boroughs affected, the whole issue should be a NO-BRAINER.  How much are Mori being paid to conduct this consultation?Still can't see how patient care will be improved.

Nicola Howard ● 5185d

I have said it before and I will say it again - sack the MANAGERS!!!

Jean F Fernandez ● 5185d

Closure of four west London A&E casualty units ‘beggars belief’Emergency: Casualty units in Ealing, Charing Cross, Central Middlesex and Hammersmith hospitals could be closedRoss Lydall03 July 2012Plans to close four casualty departments and slash maternity services which serve two million people across west London “beggar belief”, Ealing council leader Julian Bell said today.His council is leading a fightback against GPs’ proposals to cut the number of  A&E units from nine to five in eight boroughs. Mr Bell said: “We need people power to defeat these plans.”The GPs’ preferred option would see Ealing, Charing Cross, Central Middlesex and Hammersmith all losing their A&E units — with casualty services retained at St Mary’s, Chelsea and Westminster, West Middlesex, Northwick Park and Hillingdon.Maternity services would be removed from Ealing and Charing Cross.Mr Bell said the changes would have a massive impact on his borough, with its four closest hospitals all downgraded. He added: “When these half-baked plans were announced, all our worst fears and more were realised.“It beggars belief that essential health services like A&E could be cut nearly in half without damaging health care. “The council is committed to fighting these proposals but we need people power. I want local people to join our campaign and to tell their friends, neighbours, relatives and colleagues to do the same. With a powerful single voice we can save our hospitals.”Clinicians say the plan is in response to the ageing and more obese population and seeks to treat patients outside hospital.The proposals, Shaping a Healthier Future, have come from North West London NHS. A 14-week consultation runs until October 8, with a final decision next year.The NHS spends £3.6 billion a year on services in the area but needs to save four per cent a year. It says the region has more A&E departments per head than any other part of the country, but too many people end up there unnecessarily because of difficulties seeing their GP.It also faces severe staff shortages, with only 45 surgeons operating across nine hospitals and a shortage of midwives

Nicola Howard ● 5185d

What people are forgetting re  the distance people have to travel  is ......should the patient have to stay in those Hospitals , how on earth are friends and family  going to afford to visit the patient. I could not afford the mini cab fare ., At 80 years of age all the bus or tube changes would be far  too much for me to cope with as well.I would be completely isolated , with nobody able to visit me.No relatives in London and friends elderly , with infirmities

Beryl Bashford ● 5178d

We have an octogenarian (Beryl Bashford) who has posted high up on the string and, her concerns are valid about cost, travel and visitors.  Just another way to isolate us oldies.I notice that Chris M has failed to answer Chris V. (Chris M, just one question to you: Are you in the private healthcare sector, or in any way connected with it??  I think we should be told.)I wonder how many doctors/consultants are in favour of the closures?Anyone had a consultation pack yet?  It did start on the 2nd July.

Nicola Howard ● 5178d

I agree with every thing you say. I would also add that should the patient be admitted into one of these far flung Hospitals how on earth are family and friends going to be able to afford the cab fares to visit .Not every one has a car. I am 80 years of age . My niece lives 81 miles away, my friends are elderly with disabilities of one kind or another, and could not cope with the journey on buses and tubes  to visit me. So I would be absolutely isolated.As I am hard of hearing a mobile phone is of no use to me and  I am useless at texting. Mobiles need recharging , some thing not allowed in Hospitals  any way.When you are really ill you would not be up to using a mobile  . Why can't the leaders of this proposal see beyond the medical advantages  of Specialist Hospitals?  I can tell you why. They  could afford to go to a Private Hospital and get the best medical care on offer.

Beryl Bashford ● 5178d

The idea to close the A&E departments will surely leave residents at a much higher risk of complications or worse when proper treatment is delayed until the patient can be admitted to some far flung hospital, miles away from family and friends.Depending on the time of day and traffic it will surely mean a longer journey from home to hospital. The NHS would need  more ambulances and paramedics to ensure a quick response when someone rings 999.It would seem that very little thought has been given to possible consequences and the whole idea is just about saving money, not lives. I agree with other comments, many people, especially those with disabilities, or the elderly, will suffer if this comes into fruition. Both the patient and the family members will bear the brunt of the decisions made by those in charge, visiting a sick relative should not have to involve lengthy and difficult journeys to and from hospital.Not everyone has their own car but must rely on public transport, which can be difficult at the best of times. This would simply add more stress on the family of patients.Also having a sick person sitting in unfamiliar surroundings with little likelihood of seeing familiar faces when visiting time comes around is just too horrible to think about,As mentioned in earlier discussions, there are surely many more ways of saving money in the NHS, it is not rocket science!

Jean F Fernandez ● 5178d

Even if friends and relatives were able to drive to these far flung hospitals, parking is severely limited or, non-existent.  A disabled blue badge issued by Ealing council is not valid in the Westminster area, therefore St Mary's Paddington is out of the question.  Myself, I am unable to use public transport as any severe jolt on my back would give me serious problems, so I either have to drive or take a minicab, which, can get expensive.  Do that a few times a week and that is your pension gone.If there is an upside and we have to go to the Chelsea and Westminster, we could call ourselves Sloane Rangers!

Nicola Howard ● 5178d

Maybe they are just trying to kill us all off Nicola!!!

Jean F Fernandez ● 5178d

Are you suggesting OAP cleansing?

Nicola Howard ● 5178d

Nicola, the way things seem to be going I wouldn't put it past them!

Jean F Fernandez ● 5177d

Have you seen the letter from my GP in the Ealing and Acton Gazette ? where do we get the form he suggests we fill in ? Any one know ?

Beryl Bashford ● 5177d

It's 87 pages but here is a link.www.healthiernorthwestlondon.nhs.uk

Nicola Howard ● 5177d