Forum Topic

Acton Aesthetes think ouside of the box!

So the new box has gone up outside the church. Why?It is longer it still obscures a view of the Church.Is the cost justifiable in these austere times? I think not.How will the wider community benefit from this extravagant folly?Do speak up the self serving community leaders of the CCA because I think you have wasted our money!

Colin Carroll ● 5194d64 Comments

Colin, can you send a photograph?

Dee Cook ● 5193d

What an eyesore. No improvement whatsoever.  It even has air vents for mice!

Nicola Howard ● 5193d

No improvement?  Have you forgotten what the previous box looked like?! It's a huge improvement.Yes it's a bit longer but no higher and I like the metal and patterning.Ideally nothing should be there but unfortunately something has to be there and I think it's OK. 

Sarah Harris ● 5193d

Why does something have to be there?  For the traders,  I would be more than happy if the traders were also not there,  nothing but cheap tat.

Jen Morty ● 5193d

A huge improvement? It is just another box which propably cost quite a few bob. Is it worth it?

Colin Carroll ● 5193d

They need to store stuff somewhere and this is a nice looking box, I'm ok with it.

Rupert Picken ● 5193d

Why on earth are you getting at the CCA about this Colin?We - and I - have been lobbying for the removal of the beastly green box for years - and protesting that we were never consulted about its erection or anything to do with it in the first place.We also lobbied against any replacement in anything like the same area. i really can't help it if Ealing Council doesnt always listen to us.The one thing I wanted out of Boris's money was the removal of the eyesore and the view restored. I got half of it which is maybe a start.The CCA would love to have elections if enough people wanted to be active enough to stand. I'm not sure how many community associations are in that fortunate position but not many. The CCA has about 200 members in and around Acton Central. I would say we punched above our weight and often do make a difference. But if you want a response from  elected representatives, I suggest you consult our councillors about the green box and indeed call them to account for any expenditure.

Sara Nathan ● 5193d

I overheard two people talking about it today as I was walking past.  One appeared to be saying that the 'hole' patterns light up.I think they should have put it where the blue shipping container was.  It seemed to make the street drinkers less noticeable.

Fred Bray ● 5193d

It is a waste of money. So you think it is an eysore that is your opinion how much has your opinion cost us? Keep your over inflated aestheitics to yourself because it is a costly view. Think on because there are people in this town that are having very tough times at the moment. Please justify your naive point of view.What a waste of money. 200 people in the CCA do you really represent Acton? I think not. On Facebook there is a we love Acton page these people would put you lot to shame. How much have we paid to remove the green box ? Let us know because I think the CCA will feel ashamed.Stop ducking the issue the CCA members were instrumental in wasting money on replacing a box with an even bigger box. Well done!Beastly? Get over it. Your opinion has become costly.

Colin Carroll ● 5193d

Rupert nice looking at what cost? Not in these austere times.

Colin Carroll ● 5193d

You are so wrong.We lobbied to get rid of the box. As did others.it should never have been there.We did not/do not have control over the budget - nor over the replacement - which we lobbied against.These are austere times indeed but this money wan't going to do anything about that - some of the ideas were quite flighty.You could equally criticise the artwork on the High Street. I think it's great and hides a horrid building. You presumably think we should leave the derelict car park unadorned because we don't deserve better. I have never claimed the CCA represents Acton - merely its members, That's its job. For representation go to your councillors or MP.Why would the We love Acton page put the CCA to shame? Isn't there room for both?

Sara Nathan ● 5192d

I agree with Sara.I have looked at the We love Acton facebook pages - and it is a lot of old photos of Acton (some 'borrowed' from another Acton website - which it would be nice to acknowledge) and some people having a reminisce about the old times. The CCA is about now - and trying to make Acton a better place by taking our thoughts and objections about planning applications etc to the Council. They do a good job. Don't knock it - with out the lobbying Acton would be a worse place. Remember who your elected council representatives are, and complain to them. They make the final decisions.

Amanda Knights ● 5192d

Can we please have confirmation of what is inside this hideous piece of rubbish.Stallholders stalls and a water tap I believe - can someone confirm.I suggested many years ago that Morrisons could locate all this stuff in a box to the left of their shop against the wall - where it would be less obtrusive.But I understand that the cost of relocating the water supply was expensive.  But could not Morrisons pay for this - presumably they receive custom when the market is operating.

Dee Cook ● 5192d

It took a while before I had even noticed the green box had disappeared, that's how offensive it was.  Still, the money has been spent, let's just live with it and move on.

N Roberts ● 5192d

I don't know the cost, can you let me know.

Rupert Picken ● 5192d

I think Morrisons are hoping to redevelop either the whole site of part of it. That's whay I was told they eventually - after much toing and fro-ing - refused to put the box there - which would have been so much better.I dont know why it needs plumbing anyhow - if it does.

Sara Nathan ● 5192d

So how much will the new box improve our environment? Will you lot be walking on air as you pass by it? Is the new box functionally better than the old and how much has this utter folly cost us?And all because the old one seemed beastly. Well if there are any other beastly sites around keep your views to yourself we might end up saving ourselves a bob or two.

Colin Carroll ● 5192d

I'm not sure the new box will improve our environment - but then it's not what the local residents whose opinions I heard wanted. It's not what your community association asked for.If only when we saved "a bob or two" - I wonder if anyone under forty knows what you mean - it was then deployed on something else to make Acton better. But there is no evidence it is.The money was, I understand, granted by the Mayor to make our urban environment better. Taking away the box and not replacing it with something nearly as bad would have done that.At least you can be pleased, Colin, that the art works in pots seems to have decreased from 21 pots to about 6. Whether that has saved any money, I have no idea but surely it should have done. PS they sounded pretty beastly too - though not as much as the green box   

Sara Nathan ● 5192d

I'm afraid I think the new box is signficantly more of an eyesore than the last box which did not really bother me. The metal draws attention to it whereas the green was more low key.

Jen Morty ● 5191d

I agree it's grim; bigger than before and basically a standard size container in a full metal jacket.Not at all what was wanted - wrong location, size and style. The people planning the project said this change was a temporary fix until they sorted a new location.I hope they dont think that's a problem sorted. It isnt.

Sara Nathan ● 5190d

As many contributors to this forum are unhappy with the container, which is necessary for the market traders, what kind of box/shed do you want?I think that this new box is beautiful.

Gail Peters ● 5190d

I'd like it somewhere else essentially.Up against the Morrison's wall preferablyOr non-existant with a nearby basement or room used for storage.

Sara Nathan ● 5190d

I am at a loss as to why they did anything if it is just temporary! I wonder if temporary means it will just stay for years....

Jen Morty ● 5190d

There are many things I'd like to be non-existent and I don't doubt that trying to get a nearby private organisation to donate their land for free storage would involve a drawn-out legal process.  Costly and time-consuming and ultimately of no benefit to anyone but the few people who find the box offensive.I think we have to accept that we live in a city, not some horror like Poundbury.

N Roberts ● 5190d

But a city which we, the people who live and work in it, can make better or worse.Many people loathed the green box for years.That doesn't make spending money on a temporary solution which may not be any/much better a good idea.

Sara Nathan ● 5190d

N Roberts I am in agreement with you. What was all the fuss over the green box ? I never noticed it until people started making a fuss.In the process of replacing it did anyone ask much it would cost to replace it? If the cost was mentioned did anyone say it is not worth it?What was needed was someone in the decision making process to say we can not justify replacing the box simply on the grounds of looks we live in Acton! But now its done lets leave the replacement alone, have not we spent enough?

Colin Carroll ● 5190d

Nothing wrong with trying to improve the area we live in,  just a moronic decision was made to replace an eyesore with a worse eyesore.  Why should we accept living with horrid surroundings in some areas i.e. the Mount,  just because it's Acton?

Jen Morty ● 5190d

I doubt the person who designed it would agree it's an eyesore.  I think the problem is that people wanted the box gone but the Council inferred "it's an eyesore" to mean "can we have a nicer one?".  So we have one which at least has had some design effort gone into it.Removing the box would mean trying to locate whatever is in it somewhere else.  Realistically, this is unlikely as other options would be inconvenient, costly or both.The box is there now, do we really want the council to throw more money at trying to keep people happy, or do we just deal with it and let them spend our taxes on more important stuff?

N Roberts ● 5190d

The council can't possibly have inferred that - it was made perfectly clear that the location was as much of a problem as the green-ness and the box.They just didn't/couldn't find a solution.Maybe this is better. I'm not sure. But we are probably stuck with it for a while.

Sara Nathan ● 5190d

Well if it could not be moved elsewhere they should have just left well alone and spent the money on something else.  Smacks of money and time wasting a bit like the Laurel and Hardy efforts with the road narrowing,  then widening,  then roundabout near The Windmill Pub.

Jen Morty ● 5190d

Its all well bringing beauty to our surroundings but one should ask at what cost?So who instigated the campaign to have the old box removed? Are they happy with what they have achieved? Can they now justify the cost?

Colin Carroll ● 5190d

Was not the market up and running before any box, green eyesore or this current monstrosity, ever erected?  They managed then without, so why not now?  Neither of the boxes fit into the surroundings and, both have been used as a urinal.  It's about time the council did some logical thinking.  Acton is becoming a dumping ground for over population and senseless ideas (pots, boxes, roundabouts etc.)

Nicola Howard ● 5190d

The Market is a recent innovation. Near to the site of the box was a public toilet. How many complained about that I wonder? Or was it a case of cleanliness being next to godliness?

Colin Carroll ● 5190d

Near to the site of the box was a public toilet. Any chance we could FLUSH the box away.  Wonder if the local rodents have gone through the holes and, found residence.  Bet the council would charge council tax!

Nicola Howard ● 5190d

It's a bit harsh blaming those who didn't like the green shed for what has replaced it as I suspect they didn't see what was proposed in its place. Did anyone here know what was going to replace the green box? And if not, who did?

Vlod Barchuk ● 5189d

Absolutely not!I think just the council people running the schemes.Certainly we were never told/asked about installing a massive container which then got clad.

Sara Nathan ● 5189d

Please tell me who asked for the green box to be removed?Someone kicked up a fuss and started the ball rolling who then approved this folly? It was not necessary it has been a waste of money.Vlod of course it is right to have a go at those who were involved in this scheme because it was wrong from the outset.

Colin Carroll ● 5189d

Oh I agree  - but my "outset " was installing the green box in the first place - with no consultation, complete with light and water making it difficult to remove.Daft.

Sara Nathan ● 5189d

There is a pub adjacent to this hideous box.Would not the space occupied by the box be better used by the pub for outside eating, etc. - with tables and chairs for customers useage (not the drunks).

Dee Cook ● 5188d

Dee, if there were tables and chairs outside the pub, then they would no doubt be occupied by the drunks!Colin - why do you keep having a go at poor Sara and the CCA? I am sorry, but I find it quite rude and unnecessary. The ultimate decision over the 'green box' was with Ealing Council, and they decided to spend the money. They had the ability to disregard the opinions of those who objected to the box - in the same way as they choose to disregard people's opinions about planning issues. Lobby your councillors and stop being so negative towards others. What's done is done, and your continual digs at those who didn't like the box are not going to change anything.

Amanda Knights ● 5188d

The water and electricity would already have been there from the toilet, arguably making it a cheap solution for the council taxpayer.  I'm sure more expensive locations were available.

N Roberts ● 5188d

.......not neccessarily.  It would be up to the pub to ensure they were used for their customers only......... Displacement is what it is called.Put something else in the place of that which you are trying to get rid off = displacement.Or by another little bit of jargon - 'designing out problems'!

Dee Cook ● 5188d

"Please tell me who asked for the green box to be removed?"That's not the point. Someone took a decision to replace it with a shipping container. I was lobbied to get rid of the green shed when I was a councillor and did nothing, precisely because a. storage for market traders was required and b. no better solution than the green shed was available. Ealing Council oould have sent the new design to the CCA for comment or presented it at a ward forum meeting; at least then some folk complaining about it may have looked on the green shed and said to themselves 'it could be worse'. However, someone decided doing something - anything - was better than doing nothing.

Vlod Barchuk ● 5188d

The reason I keep bringing up the question about who wanted the green box replaced is that I believe just because it did not look nice did not justify its removal. I have a good idea who it might have been.It has resulted in an utter waste of taxpayers money.What is rude about asking searching questions?The council would probably have left it well alone if was not for the pressure from some so called well meaning and enlightened residents.What's done never needed to be done in the first place.

Colin Carroll ● 5188d

Colin, you just don't get it do you?Why don't you go and complain to the council - THEY spent the money not whoever the 'mystery' person is who you are continually complaining about. The council made the decision, no-one else. As I said before - the council do not always listen to the residents, no matter how much they campaign over something. If you want to influence the expenditure and decisions, why not stand as a councillor next time? Then you can make your feelings known to the right people.Perhaps you ought to go and ask the people of Acton if they prefered the 'green box' to the new one. See what result you get, then come back and tell us. You may find many people didn't like the green box, but they didn't know how to make a complaint about it.Acton has changed a lot in the last 32 years since I came to live here - and not all for the better. There are lots of things the council has spent taxpayers money on that may be considered an 'utter waste' of money, but we, the taxpayers do not get the final say.

Amanda Knights ● 5187d

Amanda I do get it! I just want to know who made the initial proposal to have the green box removed did it come from the council or someone like your good self?This is an expensive cock up that should have been stopped from the first descenting voice.I am sure if the people of Acton were told how much it would have cost to replace the green box most of them would have said no.

Colin Carroll ● 5187d

Colin, I can assure you that I had absolutely nothing to do with the removal of the green box. I thought it was an eyesore, but like many people, just accepted it. It seems you want to blame anyone but the council for this. Just because there were some 'dissenting voices' from the CCA, and other residents, the council did not have to spend the money. They did not listen when objections were made about the Tram Depot development, and will they listen to the objections over The Oaks development? The council make the decisions - and if you voted for them, it is as much your fault the money has been spent as anyone elses!As a regular reader of the forum - and, usually, an occasional poster, I knew that people did not like the green box. I guess you are new to the forum, and so have not seen previous posts and comments - if you had, you could have then expressed your opinion to the council and other forum readers.Why not ask the council your question about the initial proposal etc? Surely they are the ones to answer it - Freedom of Information etc.? Do we actually know how much this has cost? Is it more, or less than the 'cock up'(as you put it) of the bollards in the High Street, which were put in and then replaced with a mini roundabout? More tax payers money spent and wasted.I generally make very few posts on the forum, but I think your negative attitude towards the CCA is unnecessary, and I find it derogatory towards them. The CCA do try hard to make Acton a nicer place to live and their campaigning does improve things.

Amanda Knights ● 5187d

Vlod as ever speaks sense.  It is all about consulting the RIGHT (apologies for capitals) people at the RIGHT time (ie, before the decision is made).

Dee Cook ● 5187d

And when the box is hooked up to the electrics, watch the pretty lights come on !!........Red, I heard......

Ellie Rose ● 5187d

Consulting anyone would have been a good idea!The CCA only became involved because members said how much they hated the box. If that's the case, it's surely right for a local community association to listen and reflect its members' views. I never heard anyone say "it's fine, leave it alone"So when we were asked by the Council for suggestions about how to improve Acton town centre, spending money we were OFFERED by Boris and co, of course it was fair enought to say that one of teh ways the centre of the town could be improved was by removing the much hated green box.The fact that the project then failed to deliver on this aspect is surely not the fault of local people or the local community association.At least we have the art work/mural on the ghastly wreck in the High Street so there are some gains.But I don't suppose Colin thinks that worth the money (however much it was) either.

Sara Nathan ● 5187d

I don't mind the cover on the building it is cost effective. I did not mind the building btw!The same solution could have been applied to the box it could have been wrapped to disguise. They do this to advertise on cabs and vans. No costly removal costs.

Colin Carroll ● 5187d

Is it cost effective? And what makes it so - apart from looking great?Do you know what it actually cost?I had heard £30,000 to last three years. But that may not be right.I wouldn't have thought you would think that money well spent Colin!

Sara Nathan ● 5187d

£30,000 ? ?  Ebay 20ft once used shipping container   £2,125.00

Fred Bray ● 5187d

Drove past it again this evening my word it is vile,  and because of this thread I look at it more than I might have!

Jen Morty ● 5187d

Well the cost of tearing it down and replacing it would be far more expensive.

Colin Carroll ● 5187d

May I inject a few facts:* The green box arrived with the 'new' market some years ago - it's absolutely vital to have a place to store the market stalls and there's no other place they can go (all options have long since been investigated). We were never consulted about what it looked like and where it would go, and the council made a big song and dance about the cost of removing it (quoting £25,000 at one point).* When the Outer London Fund offered us money, removal of the green box was high on the list of things to make our environment better. Ealing Council's regeneration team got to work and started negotiating with Morrison's to be allowed to place a new box next to the wall between the store and what is now the used computer games shop. * These negotiations went pretty far and look like reaching fruition. Then Morrison's told the council that they planned to do a big redevelopment of the site and what the council had proposed would not work. So Morrison's refused to allow the box to be moved there.* However, they haven't ruled out having the box on their site. Part of the council's proposal to them is that one end of it could be used by them as an outside shop (say, to sell their flowers) or a cafe. So, knowing that the green box was such an eyesore, the council took a risk and purchased the new one. It is so much larger so that it can accommodate the outside shop or cafe, which will make it more likely to be moved on to Morrison's property - eventually. * It is my understanding that the box is not plumbed in at the moment (although, for the shop/cafe, it could be in future). I don't know if it's got electricity. The work done to the ground beneath it was to make it solid and safe enough to take the new box.* Although I was really disappointed to see a box back on that spot (and one that was bigger than the green one), I actually agree with the council. It's worth the risk to have something that's better looking and more fit for purpose ready and waiting for the move to Morrison's land, than to keep the horrible green box there.* If you want to complain to anyone, try Morrison's. I've written to Sir Ken Morrison, asking him to take up our case even though he's no longer in charge of the company. Got a nice hand-written letter back saying he would pass my letter on to the CEO of the company. Unless and until they get on with their redevelopment, we're left in this unhappy position.BTW, I think the cost of the new box and the oak tree covering the car park are about the same...

Nancy Duin ● 5185d

the £30,000 was what I heard about the Oak tree on the high street.Have no idea about the green box but thought an earlier plan was stymied because it would cost £10,000 to remove the green beast

Sara Nathan ● 5185d

Since Colin has been picking on the CCA and Sara (no affiliation) perhaps Colin would have preferred a bandstand or raised dais, so that he could raspberry down his bugle.

Nicola Howard ● 5185d

I totally agree "..the new box is signficantly more of an eyesore than the last box which did not really bother me. The metal draws attention to it whereas the green was more low key." Making the change a total waste of money. With drunks crashed out on Lenin's Tomb at one end of the market, and this mess at the other... I have nothing positive to say about these changes.As for the Oak mural covering on the high street: I am reminded of an expression along the lines of 'putting christmas tree lights on a t*rd does not stop it from being a t*rd'. I don't like how it looks then or now, and I am certain it would have been preferable to see the upper stories of this rundown building developed into habitable homes. Or the whole building renovated. And why did the council pay out for this mural? Isn't it a privately owned building? Shouldn't the council be putting pressure on owners and landlords to maintain and utilise what adversley affects us on our high street, instead of helping owners/landlords to avoid/evade/disguise problems at our cost? Ealing council has had decades to pursue a better solution for this building.

S Bradford ● 5184d

No I would have preferred the green box to remain as it did not bother me.Are the CCA above criticism? Look what their complaining has led to more waste of taxpayers money.A ducking stool for you Nicola might be a good idea.

Colin Carroll ● 5184d

Two thoughts come to mind here:Be careful what you wish for! and It's no use crying over spilt milk!Anyway I for one am very pleased that the green eyesore has finally gone, whilst I agree that the new box much bigger and in the very same spot when we wanted it gone - at least it is more pleasing on the eye, in my humble opinion.Let's hope it is finally moved closer to Morrisons in the future so we can have the view of St Mary's Church back again!In the meantime there is absolutely nothing we can do about the situation so it is probably not much point in going on about it and trying to find someone to blame.As Sara said, the Council do not listen to the wishes of the residents, never have done in the past and probably never will.

Jean F Fernandez ● 5184d

Jean how much time did you spend looking at the views of the back end of the church? Were they that breath taking?If you had moved a few feet you could still see the church in all its glory.

Colin Carroll ● 5184d

No actually, the views were not that breathtaking as a matter of fact, nor will they be until the state of the graveyard is improved.The fact that the box is situated in this position only increases the activities behind it, namely an opportunity for drunks and litter louts to throw their rubbish into the graveyard.The rear of the box is also used by the market traders to leave pallets, boxes and assorted rubbish after the market is closed for the day. I love Acton and have lived here for 34 years and anything that can be done to improve this area then I am all for it.The box should never have been situated outside the church in the first place, sadly I guess we are going to have to put up with it for some time to come.

Jean F Fernandez ● 5184d

Ducking stool, surely you can do better!I'm surprised that you have not branded us ladies, The Witches of Acton.  B flat or A sharp?

Nicola Howard ● 5184d