Forum Topic

Card cloning

Just a word of warning. I have been contacted by my bank to inform me my debit card has been 'cloned'. It had been used to pay for items using the magnetic swipe strip, not a PIN, in a Sainsbury's in London on three occasions yesterday.Having checked where I have used my card there are no 'dodgy' shops and I don't drive so don't use petrol stations (there were some problems with card cloning at some of them). My only worry is the Bank of Ireland ATM outside the post office. I have used this twice recently, instead of my usual Santander ATM inside the branch in Acton. Please be careful - I will now only use ATMs inside a branch as they are less likely to have been messed about with!

Amanda Knights ● 5137d28 Comments

I always go inside if I possibly can but it's surprising how many people don't bother.

Susan Kelly ● 5137d

Sometimes it's not possible to go inside. The post office does not have an inside machine, and when the banks are closed there is no option but to use the outside machines. On some occasions you just have to use what is available if you unexpectedly need cash - e.g. you find a restaurant doesn't take cards - like Woody Grill.

Amanda Knights ● 5136d

I have found out that my cloned card was used in Sainsbury's in Acton - i.e. Churchfield Road. It was used three times in one day - so someone in that store must be party to the cloning of cards to allow it to be used without the chip and pin.So, please be careful when using cash dispensers in the area, I would hate others to suffer the same inconvenience as I have.

Amanda Knights ● 5126d

"so someone in that store must be party to the cloning of cards to allow it to be used without the chip and pin."I don't see how accepting a purchase with a signature instead of the PIN makes them "party to the cloning of cards".  It's up to the shop to decide their policy on such transactions, and they carry the risk of not being paid for a failed transaction.  It may be that Sainsbury's allow signature-only transactions up to a certain cost limit, which could explain why the holder of the cloned card had to make 3 visits.

Richard Jennings ● 5126d

Richard,The three transactions were for a total of over £200 - one of them was for over £100. If there was a limit, then I am sure over £100 would have exceeded that. It all seems very odd that the transactions were carried out in the same store, on the same day if there wasn't someone who was party to it.

Amanda Knights ● 5126d

I've done a bit more Googling on this, and I've seen several posts that suggest that Sainsbury's are quite relaxed about accepting a signature instead of a PIN.  So maybe the thieves continued using Sainsbury's when they realised that there was no problem there, and perhaps after finding that other places needed a PIN.

Richard Jennings ● 5126d

Re  hate others to suffer the same inconvenience as I have          xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx a frightening experience Amanda, are you expected to bear the loss?. Lucky I suppose they didn't use it to buy a car.

Tony Price ● 5126d

Some cards are now being issued which can be used to pay by swiping at a short distance from a sensor, much like an Oyster card, while there is a plan to allow Oyster cards to be used to pay bills in shops and restaurants. This means that they can all be scanned at random unless very carefully screened, and tests with similar cards in Europe found that this could be made to work from several feet away.

Chris Bell ● 5126d

Tony,Fortunately the fact that the card was used using the strip not the PIN flagged up that this was not usual for my card, and the bank contacted me very quickly. They have accepted it as fraud and will reimburse me. It has made me very wary of where I use my card now.

Amanda Knights ● 5126d

We had a phone call on Saturday evening about 6.30. The guy seemed to have an African accent.When asked, My husband confirmed his name. The man said that a fraud has been committed by someone using my husband's card.My husband immediately hung up.We checked today and everyhing is OK with the account!Beware of people wanting details and information. Perhaps we should have asked this guy some questions to see what his reaction would be!

Jean F Fernandez ● 5126d

Amanda, very out of order to accuse a member of Sainsbury's staff of committing fraud on a forum such as this. Fraudsters have lots of tricks, I would not presume to know all of them, neither should you....IMHO

Iain Muir ● 5126d

Re  wary of where I use my card now.          xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx    that is good that the Bank will stand the fraud but how will you be able to decide not to use the card in certain places. Before you make any purchases,( could be a restaurant ) will you ask  what method that place uses to take money via the card and walk out if they are swipers. It may well be we should have another card handy and one which  could not have been compromised at a cash machine?

Tony Price ● 5126d

I should have mentioned for info that I was on holiday in Canada recently. My UKBank Debit card worked fine but on returning to the UK it was locked...suspicious behaviour, ie buying an IPad in an Apple store, Toronto plus bits for c.£700... Good they picked it up as possible fraud but frustrating to unpick at this end. Perhaps card issuers should do more to alert us to let them know before we travel....

Iain Muir ● 5126d

Iain. This also happened to me a couple of years ago in The States. I made 3 purchases and on the 4th, my debit card was locked. Luckily I had other cards but on returning to the UK, I headed straight to the bank who told me that in future, I was to tell them if I was going to use my debit abroad in order for the card to be used. I have always always done this with Credit cards but it seems that debit cards now also have to be authorised but I can understand the security aspect of it all even though it was frustrating at the time.

Ellie Rose ● 5125d

Have you reported the fraud in sainsbury's to the police. giving them the times when the card was used so officers could go and check the cctv. The offender is most likely local to the area.

Peter Preston ● 5125d

I used to notify my credit card provider if going abroad but then they told me not to bother as they would call me on my mobile if they had any doubts about a transaction.

Susan Kelly ● 5125d

I do not have details of the times the card was used,only where and the date, but my bank will have these details. I believe they will take up the matter. Ultimately it is Sainsbury's who will lose out because they accepted a card without the PIN. I am sorry if others feel I am wrong to suggest someone in Sainsbury's is party to the fraud, but it is very suspicious when a cloned card has only been used in one store on three occasions.

Amanda Knights ● 5125d

Re  but my bank will have these details.          xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx    if you still have the till receipts Amanda, they should show not only the times but possibly the tills involved?. That should help the Police tremendously, and Sainsbury who should be most concerned and grateful to you for raising the issue.

Tony Price ● 5125d

Tony,I don't have till receipts because I did not use the card! The bank must have details of the times etc, but they have only passed on to me the details of the amounts and the fact it was used in Sainsbury's in Acton.The card was cloned from another machine - as I said in an earlier post possibly the ATM outside the post office as this is the only place my card has been used that could have been tampered with. I haven't used it anywhere else other than in reputable stores and inside Santander and never in Sainsbury's Acton.

Amanda Knights ● 5124d

Re  because I did not use the card!            xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx    yes, of course, silly me!

Tony Price ● 5124d

This morning I had a letter from my bank which asked me to verify that I had not used my card in Sainsbury's on the said date, and asking if I was happy for them to pursue it with the Police and the retailer. I of course agreed to that!Whether I will ever find out if they catch the culprits or not, I do not know. But I hope for everyone's sake they do catch them.

Amanda Knights ● 5124d

My card was cloned a few years ago I got a nasty shock when £1,500 disappeared.  The card was used repeatedly in the same few convenience stores over the course of a few days.  I also never used my card in dodgy places.  I think you should not make comments about Sainsburys staff that you cannot back up.I doubt the Police will catch the culprit as in my experience they did not even bother to try.  The bank were good though and repaid me all that had been taken,  I believe once it is established it was stolen they are obliged to refund the money.I now ALWAYS check my balance every couple of days to ensure all ok.

Jen Morty ● 5124d

I now tell my bank before I go.  They once called me while I was abroad but of course they call UK time, so I was asleep.  I tried calling back (very expensive from overseas) and of course their call centre was of course closed.  So yes, do tell you bank regardless of what they tell you!

N Roberts ● 5124d

Re    will ever find out if they catch the culprits or not            xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx  no reason why  you can't ask for  confirmation  if they have been caught, emphasizing you are not expecting to be told their identities. The fact is someone has stolen your property so I would say you are entitled to know if the thieves have been caught. If you are asked to give evidence in Court you can ask for your own identity not to be made known publicly.

Tony Price ● 5124d

The sooner this country moves to "topped up" debit cards as done in several countries to counter fraud and cloning the better - the original card has an amount topped up into it (like an Oyster card) and thus is specific to that card - cloning it will achieve nothing. The theft of such cards is thus limited to whatever balance remains on them and if loss is reported quickly the usage can also be stopped.I also think Sainsbury's use of swiping alone versus use of PIN should be stopped - hopefully by making them suffer the loss they will start to suffer the pain and reduce this happening again.I recall going to a conference on financial crime over ten years ago where card cloning was being identified as a trend and this solution was mentioned but apparently the UK clearer banks were against the costs involved  at that time.On quick repeated usage in the same location or even large store, this is normal experience as the thieves know there is limited usage time before they are rumbled.

Joe Conneely ● 5121d

How many card machines offer a Braille facility for blind users?

Chris Bell ● 5120d

My card was cloned once. Fortunately, they drew money from cash machines abroad. More than 3,0000 miles away. Just under £500.00These debits stood out on my bank statement because the currency conversion exchange rates meant they weren't nice round cash machine type amounts.  I was able to prove that the card was still in my possession, always had been, and that I was Acton on the days the money was drawn.I phoned the bank and canceled the card. The bank sent me a questionnaire to fill,  questions relating to how secure the card was kept, who had access to it, if anyone else knew the pin number, etc.I was fully refunded within a month.The bank issued me with a new card and PIN, they advised me to cut the old card up and destroy it.I cut the old card up, but decided to keep the bits, in case I needed further proof that it had been cloned, not stolen and misused.

Fred Bray ● 5120d

I e-mailed Sainsbury's regarding their acceptance of debit cards using only the magnetic strip. Their reply is below:-Thanks for your enquiry. The only time we will accept the use of a magnetic swipe card is when customers have a chip and signature card.  These are normally reserved for disabled bank customers who have difficulty entering their pins on the key machine.  We still accept chip and signature cards which customers are able to request from their banks. Some foreign credit cards also don’t allow for a chip and pin and the signature strip is used.I hope that you find this information useful and we look forward to seeing you in store again soon.

Amanda Knights ● 5114d