Forum Topic

Illegal outbuilding Friars Gardens

Hi all and Merry Christmas to you.I've informed the Council about an illegal outbuilding which is being used to house a family, although it got planning permission earlier this year as a "gymnasium" at the rear of the house, behind the double garage doors.  Astonishingly, the Council don't think there's a problem as they seem to have gone to the wrong house!  They now say the gym got permission, so there's not a problem, but clearly there is!  Any advice please?  The fallout from the illegal building is fly-tipping and refuse dumped on the pavement (not always on the correct day, of course!)A peaceful 2014 to you.

Angela White ● 4648d62 Comments

Others (a certain Australian gentleman springs to mind!) may be on this thread soon to share their experiences of similar situations. To be in breach of planning permission, the Council has to find evidence of the property being used as a home. This can be done but the Council needs to stick at it; the noise pollution team have visited properties in the eveings to try to find evidence of inappropriate occupation. The Council now has a lot of experience of trying to apply laws (often full of loopholes) to close 'beds in sheds' in Southall. Usual routine I'm afraid: get on to the councillors, ask the head of planning enforcement why her officers aren't speaking to others in the Council who have supplementary enforcement powers (eg. fire and building regs, council tax registration of gym dwellers, houses in multiple occupancy).

Vlod Barchuk ● 4648d

Its 18 months now since a property was turned into 12 apartments plus a garden room. Planning permission was only for three. Council says its illegal but nothing has happened.Might be worth trying the new 'Neighbourhood Champions' escalation procedure to see if it works.

Bob Crossley ● 4647d

Thanks Bob and Vlod.  Bob, not sure I know how that Neighbourhood Champions procedure works.....I'm still using the Streetwatchers email address, although have sent our forms back to become Champions (awwwww don't like that word!)I'm astonished that nothing has been done about the 12 apartments?  Why?  What was the excuse and who gave it?Merry Christmas to you both.

Angela White ● 4647d

There are several mock "garages" near me complete with "garage door" bolted firmly to the roadside wall, the one next door to me has been visited but there is still a couple with child living there. The house was modified and over-extended, and the "garage" built without planning permission, there is even an extended pavement behind with bollards to prevent access by vehicles. It has been fitted out with electricity, gas heating, and full plumbing.Residents were requested to supply details of nearby HMO's, but I was met with hostility when I asked a local councillor what was happening. The best suggestion so far is that the council would be forced to re-house the family if they were evicted.

Chris Bell ● 4647d

The Council have formed a specialist unit to tackle this Angela - The Outhouse Team (I kid you not!). This Team allegedly liaises with HMRC, Border Control, Utilities Companies, other Departments within Ealing Council, etc, etc so that there is a co-ordinatod effort. Unlike the shambles of the past.No idea of their effectiveness.

Rosco White ● 4644d

Thanks all.  It was passed onto this team, I believe, who've come back and are clearly either looking at the incorrect house (their message is confusing) and now they've said it's been passed and given permission.  However, I've contacted my local Councillor, who was aware of this initially anyway, and he's on the case.I don't like to be fobbed off or inefficiency, which lights a fire underneath me.  I'll keep you informed.  Bob, really upset to hear of your predicament.  No excuses at all.  Why are we being dominated by those who break all social rules and greedy landlords?  My biggest pet hate, aside from drug dealing, is the greedy landlord.

Angela White ● 4644d

"........... fobbed off or inefficiency ...... "That's Ealing Borough Council's standard Modus Operandi.

Rosco White ● 4644d

Really disappointed with Ealing Council.  They have an Outhouses department, which is dedicated to handling illegal dwellings such as the one in Friars Gardens/Friars Way and yet they've not been proactive at all, only now getting back to me yet again with an unsatisfactory response.  What a waste of our money.  I've contacted Daniel Crawford, Cllr Acton Central, who was in on this in the first place.  Daniel, and Mr Stephen Richards of Ealing Council, if you're reading this, please can get on top of this matter.  It's not fair to Tax paying residents.  I will do whatever it takes to get this matter addressed.  It's an illegal dwelling with people living in it, tax free, dumping refuse on the pavement, whilst the owner probably gets a nice income, possibly tax free, who knows.  I'm not going away.

Angela White ● 4633d

Angela, you sound surprised at the council's ineptness. Can't think why when you look at the Oaks decision, the watering down of the Town Hall plan and the wholly hopeless rubbish recycling contract.Isn't it what you expect?

Sara Nathan ● 4632d

You're right, Sara.  I had a weak moment and found myself in the Land of Optimism.  However, Daniel Crawford, Cllr for Acton Central, has been on the case immediately (again).  Can't fault him at all.  I still live in hope. 

Angela White ● 4632d

You might find that the Council's reluctance to enforce, is because they may have to re-house the occupants, and of course that costs.What a wonderful perverse world we live in. "Follow the money".

Rosco White ● 4632d

Bizarre and very disturbing.

Angela White ● 4632d

It was Daniel's mother Councillor Katherine Crawford of East Acton Ward who was supposed to be dealing with the illegal dwellings and unregistered HMO's in my area, and did not appreciate me asking questions.

Chris Bell ● 4632d

Cue Nikki!

Bob Crossley ● 4632d

Wow, someone appreciates my attacks on KC.Could it be a complex case, way above her brain capacity?The alternative could be to get pictures and post them on the forum, name and shame.

Nikki Howard ● 4632d

Aha! And a seriously guilty party over the oaks debacle too....though maybe she came under pressure.  ( but you don't really want a councillor to yield if so...)

Sara Nathan ● 4632d

Credit where credit's due......Daniel has been very supportive many times and proactive on various issues.

Angela White ● 4632d

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/1-8-million-to-tackle-scandal-of-beds-in-sheds(from 2012)

Philippa Bond ● 4631d

Fat lot of good that £1.8 Million did.The real problem, you may find, is that Council's are reluctant to enforce - because they are then lumbered with having to re-house the occupants!

Rosco White ● 4631d

Jesus, I'm repeating myself from an earlier comment!!!Apologies.

Rosco White ● 4631d

Beds in sheds actionA total of 23 English councils will benefit from the share of a £4m fund to tackle rogue landlords in their area, Housing Minister Kris Hopkins has announcedThe cash will enable councils to build on their work to root out ‘beds in sheds’. Since 2011 more than 500 of these illegally-rented outhouses have been discovered and action taken against the owners, while nine councils have already received £2.6m to tackle the problem.Read the Department for Communities and Local Government news release.( SOURCE:  http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/general/news/stories/2014/Jan14/090114/090114_6  )

Rosco White ● 4631d

I would like to say a big thank you to Daniel Crawford, Cllr, Acton Central.  He's been on the case and things have moved on.  Very thorough.  Thanks Daniel.

Angela White ● 4627d

Beds in sheds' clampdown finds family of six living in tiny outhouse  (Brent Council )

Fred Bray ● 4609d

After months of trying to get this illegal garage/"gym" sorted out, the owner moved in 3 separate people just yesterday.  Saw it with my own eyes and unfortunately for me (and fortunate for the owner) I was with someone I couldn't break-off from. When on earth is this going to be sorted out?  I was told Ealing were all over it like a rash.

Angela White ● 4558d

Well if you saw it yourself, I would be straight on to planning, the HMO officer and your councillors by, say, 0905 Monday morning.

Sara Nathan ● 4557d

Agreed. You know who your current company Councillors are? Dan Crawford. Patricia walker and Abdullah Ghuliad. Get all 3 on to it and let us know the outcome.. There are alternatives waiting post the May elections

Maire Lowe ● 4557d

Hope you get it sorted.I prefer the alternatives, at least they won't bury their heads in the sand.

Nikki Howard ● 4557d

Angela, were any young children involved in the 3 families you observed?

Gerry Tan ● 4557d

Thanks all. Yes, I've already emailed Daniel Crawford and the Council, whom I'd originally emailed, many times.  There was a notice issued to this landlord to clear the premises and restore to original planning permission.  No, the adults were only just adults though - 17, 18, 19 at most I'd say.

Angela White ● 4557d

Dear heaven above.....more saga from Ealing Council on this mess.......this illegal "gym" outhouse is being let as 3 separate units, racking in tons of money at our street's expense and nothing is being done.  I've complained and complained and I've been sent round in circles.  Really, Ealing Labour Council......why are you wasting taxpayers' money on the "Outhouses" department and the Planning Enforcement department if you're not going to do anything at all about this problem and other similar problems?  Wasteful and utterly shameful.  Vlod Barchuk.....any advice please?  Why oh why weren't you voted in?

Angela White ● 4454d

Have you had any response or help from our councillors?

Sara Nathan ● 4454d

Patricia Walker assures me she replies by return to residents. If no response from Ealing Council, copy you e mail to Martin Smith and to Patricia. Addresses are on the website or pm me.

Maire Lowe ● 4454d

Yes, Daniel Crawford has replied to emails and initiated action but nothing has been done and in the latest attempt to pursue this by us, we now have a new case opened by Outhouses dept!  It's as if no-one was aware of this case in the first place.  It's been months now.  It's gone nowhere.

Angela White ● 4454d

It's great that the Councillors answer emails and not ignore them.  However, that doesn't solve the problem.  :-(

Angela White ● 4454d

This alleged illegal outbuilding is very bad news. Who is responsible at our Council offices? Are the responsible ones our elected Councillors or the salaried permanent staff in Ealing Council? This situation seems to have been goingon too long and nothing seems to get done and nobody seems to take responsibility - not good enough. Get it sorted Ealing Council.

Gerry Tan ● 4454d

I may be wrong but suspect the council is slow to respond because they may have to find accommodation for those people found living in an illegal dwelling!Just a thought.

Jean F Fernandez ● 4454d

Daniel Crawford has been in touch this weekend and he's not happy either.  This request has already been made and now it's being raised by the officers in Outhouses as a new request/complaint!  What a waste of taxpayers' monies.

Angela White ● 4454d

Planning enforcement are slow to respond, on another matter regarding the erection of a barbed wire fence in our area absolutely no action was taken, just fobbed off by this department.What a waste of time sending emails to them.

Jean F Fernandez ● 4453d

Incompetence.

Angela White ● 4453d

You have to ask who closed the original complaint - and why?

Philippa Bond ● 4452d

Good idea, thank you, Philippa....will do.

Angela White ● 4452d

Was looking at repairs to the railway bridge to Perryn Road today and noticed the most VAST outbuilding in one of the houses backing onto the railway - at least half the garden and every sign of being a full blown bungalow. Would house for or five people easily.

Sara Nathan ● 4452d

The buildings might be visible in this Google Earth image. No doubt what estate agents refer to as a 'gym'

Fred Bray ● 4452d

Oh, well done Fred!It looks even bigger from there.But this is obviously quite old - there has been work since

Sara Nathan ● 4452d

And another week goes by with nothing done about this situation.  My husband saw a man (either the illegal landlord or a letting agent) showing people around these units this week (there are 3 separate units in this illegal dwelling).  He didn't say anything as he was with our daughter and didn't know where the conversation would have gone, so refrained.  So, no reply from the Outhouse team, no conclusion, no action.  Waste of money and space.  Should be illegal to take tax-payers' money under false pretences.

Angela White ● 4447d

Angela, a thought.Have you contacted the Council Tax Department?  It would be interesting to hear their view of the fact that they are possibly not gaining any Council Tax for the illegal dwellings they are renting out.Ask the Council Tax 'enforcement' department to go take a look to ensure that the Tax they are receiving from the owner of the property is correct.

Dee Cook ● 4446d

Hi Dee.  Good to hear from you and thanks for your input - really appreciate it.  No, I haven't contacted them yet.  Good idea, thanks.  Nothing back from the Outhouses department as yet.  Shambles.

Angela White ● 4445d

The outhouses department will fob you off because they have to do something, ie, re-house those who are to be displaced - especially if they are illegal immigrants.  The paperwork will be horrendous.The Council Tax Department are driven by income receipts and income generation.  They have targets to meet. Possibly this 'landlord' has other properties which need investigation by this department.Also, if he is running a business, presumably he is breaking other rules and regulations not dealt with by the Outhouses department. I'll have think.

Dee Cook ● 4444d

Thanks Dee.  Yes, the landlord is breaking another rule that we know of.....the "gym" exceeds the size agreed with Planning.  How on earth did it get signed off?

Angela White ● 4444d

Our lacal authority seems to be a shambles on this matter - I wish they'd do their jobs properly and take their responsibilities seriously.

Gerry Tan ● 4444d

http://england.shelter.org.uk/campaigns/fixing_private_renting/evict_rogue_landlords/email_your_council

Philippa Bond ● 4444d

Angela, Also consult with Building Control.  Do these buildings adhere to fire regs and other regulations concerning safe building requirements for properties to be occupied by people 24 hours a day.Good luck.

Dee Cook ● 4444d

You moving out of the area, Doris? Someone told me your house is/was for sale. Hope it goes well....selling like hot cakes round here - no wonder there is a healthy market for illegal outhouses.

Sara Nathan ● 4443d

http://www.getwestlondon.co.uk/news/local-news/huge-fine-slum-landlord-who-7409328Read the article!  The danger that these poor people are put in by a landlord flouting the rules.

Philippa Bond ● 4443d

Haven't read the  whole thread - too long - but have you contacted our MP?So long the only threat to the Council is one council tax payer repeatedly asking them to do something about it, they'll just be their usual incompetent selves. They need to be publicly shamed - perhaps there's an FoI request someone can do to find out about the number of reports of illegal outbuildings they have on their books and how many still exist.

Ben Smith ● 4443d

Yes Nick. Angie has been made aware of the problem and I'd raising it with Martin Smith. It also appears that Outhouses has had funding from Central Government increased. It is a puzzle why they don't reply to Angela.

Maire Lowe ● 4443d

Update.  So, the Council have taken action.  Hooray.  But the "landlord" has again moved new tenants in.  Heavy action is needed.  Not by us, of course, but by the Council.

Angela White ● 4364d

I hope you are not in for a lengthy wait Angela!

Jean F Fernandez ● 4364d

Think it's all hot air from the Council, we'll see.  Thanks Jean.

Angela White ● 4364d

That is too bad. Following Angie Bray's question to Martin Smith on your behalf, I heard the Council had taken action. I have a FOI request into them about illegal outbuildings in Acton and await a reply. Angela, can you bear to coomplain again formllyto Martin Smith the Chief Executive and to Angie Bray?. You need to use the phrase formal complaint so that it enters the Counci's complaints system. I think you have arrived at a time when your patience and good manners must be exhausted. There is probably no connection, but I see the Chair of the Planning department has an applicaton for a gym in his back garden. There is a similar application from his colleague.They must be commended for their attention to their health at their age.

Maire Lowe ● 4363d

That's very interesting Maire, perhaps they really are trying to keep fit??? ;-)

Jean F Fernandez ● 4363d

That's hysterically funny, Maire.  Gyms!  Thanks for your thoughts and yes, I will make a formal complaint.  I will let you know what happens.

Angela White ● 4363d